Episode 2 Drop Tables

Do you agree with the changes proposed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 105 77.8%

  • No

    Votes: 30 22.2%
  • Total voters
    135
  • Poll closed .
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VENOM said:
Everyone talks about the uber drops, but these are insanely hard to get. Ep4 is soo much more profitable with regards to hunting. If I need pds, I'll play ep4 all day and find easy items to sell eg v units.
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The fact that they are hard to get means that episode 2 actually has more replayability than episode 4.

You want an SJS from episode 2? You're playing episode 2 for 6 months. You want a p-wand too? Make it a year.

You want some items from episode 4? You're done in a week, and then you never need to play it again (aside from hunting hit weapons and items to sell to other players).

Ultimately, if you actually want the ubers, you'll be playing episode 2 waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than episode 4. And you can't just play episode 4, make a profit, and then buy the ubers... Because no one has them, and the ones who do aren't selling them.

EDIT: (And a lot of the ubers that DO exist were found from events - which doesn't count, and likely won't be happening again in the future, if this easter is any indication)
 
falkenjeff said:
The fact that they are hard to get means that episode 2 actually has more replayability than episode 4.

You want an SJS from episode 2? You're playing episode 2 for 6 months. You want a p-wand too? Make it a year.

You want some items from episode 4? You're done in a week, and then you never need to play it again (aside from hunting hit weapons and items to sell to other players).

Ultimately, if you actually want the ubers, you'll be playing episode 2 waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than episode 4. And you can't just play episode 4, make a profit, and then buy the ubers... Because no one has them, and the ones who do aren't selling them.
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You're only reinforcing my point skylar. EP4 rewards players far more than ep2 for easier hunting. Pwand recently sold for less than 200 pd in value.
 
VENOM said:
You're only reinforcing my point skylar. EP4 rewards players far more than ep2. Pwand recently sold for less than 200 pd value.
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Does it? Episode 4 didn't get me my Psycho Wand. And if broken events never happened (and they likely WONT be happening in the future), episode 4 would never net me the profits to buy one, either.
 
^ And that p-wand that sold was the first one in like... months? Try buying one right now - they don't exist. The only reason it sold for 200 is because events have deflated its value.
 
falkenjeff said:
^ And that p-wand that sold was the first one in like... months? Try buying one right now - they don't exist. The only reason it sold for 200 is because events have deflated its value.
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You said yourself, pwand hunt took you 6 months. 6 months for a pwand, worth 2 stacks or less. 6 months of ep4? You'd be a very rich man x)
 
VENOM said:
You said yourself, pwand hunt took you 6 months. 6 months for a pwand, worth 2 stacks or less. 6 months of ep4? You'd be a very rich man x)
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The value of the item is going to change as it has now been removed from events. 1 year from now, it DEFINITELY won't be selling for ~200 PDs.

There are also other factors:

1) The guy who sold it left the auction open for like what, a week? Less? He wanted fast cash.

2) It was his second p-wand, so he literally didn't need it.

3) Pretty sure 2 or 3 dropped within a short timeframe (like within the same month), which devalued his wand even further.

If he left his auction open longer (months) and waited for a buyer who was willing to pay, he would have sold it for a lot more.

For reference: if my wand didn't drop, I was willing to pay 350 PDs for it. I was actually going to buy one a week before it dropped - but it had already been sold privately to someone else.
 
From a non-uber hunter's view, having EP2 as the designated uber factory sucks. Take Tower as an example. Yes, a TJS is really nice, but that means you have to grind Tower for several months while getting an endless deluge of fucking Dragon Slayers to convert into team points. There is nothing to incentivize you to keep playing Skyly Tower except for a very far-off SJS and an almost equally-rare MKB with hit. And don't think you can play Tower with any other ID besides Skyly, because people will refuse on principle because there's no SJS to be had (barring the odd private game, like Peppercat trying to get HP from Purple Mericarol or Skylar using two accounts to get a PW from Oran Gibbles). It's disappointing to see one of the most fun and challenging areas in the game be turned into an endless SJS farm with the other IDs might as well not existing because SJS is the only thing uber hunters want from Tower. Want a non-uber from Tower? Go fuck yourself; it's time for another Skyly PW4 with the same Gi Gues dropping money and shitty units again while drowning in Dragon Slayers dropped by a godamn endgame enemy. You have more success getting a non-Tyrell's Ego Ult Forest game going with any ID than a non-Skyly Tower.

At times, it feels like you're walking on a minefield when you want to play EP2 because each ID has like only 1 or two "awesome" weapons per ID, and said weapons are scattered throughout different areas instead of being concentrated in one location. It's not like EP4, where most IDs are fine for both major areas and people aren't going to shit a brick if you don't pick the single "correct" ID for a location.

EP4 is far too loaded with practical but awesome items, and the only challenge comes from learning the enemies' quirks (which you should know if you're seriously playing it in Ult) and their high attack values. A high-level Deband and Jellen takes away the only advantage Ep4 enemies have, making them ez to deal with. In EP4, I never have an "oh shit" reaction to certain enemies like I do the Mericarol, Gran Sorcerer, Baranz, Deldepth, Indi Belra, or even Dark Bringer. It feels like I'm on autopilot after grinding for an item in EP4 after a while because it's that simple.
 
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@GHOSTS I think the last part of your rant backs walling the better units/weapons behind harder enemies, if ep4 is so braindead why not give these hunts more challenging enemies while keeping a fair drop rate. Imo that's a lot more rewarding than spamming rabarta at astarks for 30 seconds until they die lol.

Also people riding skyly's dick for tower constantly bugs me as well, You nailed that right on. But also cant forget that no one really wants to hunt complete bullcrap drop rates like Neiclaw, or anything 1/400,000 because at this point we're 90% a community that has been there and done that. We're going to go for the efficient hunts. But this is opening another can of worms I wont go into more.

But yea all in all like Matt has gone out of his way to state this is to incentivize balanced play between the episodes. The general consensus I'm getting from ingame and forum though is that the less played areas (temple, and spaceship) need some lovin.
 
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pOp4P1I.png
 
VENOM said:
You said yourself, pwand hunt took you 6 months. 6 months for a pwand, worth 2 stacks or less. 6 months of ep4? You'd be a very rich man x)
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GHOSTS said:
From a non-uber hunter's view, having EP2 as the designated uber factory sucks. Take Tower as an example. Yes, a TJS is really nice, but that means you have to grind Tower for several months while getting an endless deluge of fucking Dragon Slayers to convert into team points. There is nothing to incentivize you to keep playing Skyly Tower except for a very far-off SJS and an almost equally-rare MKB with hit. And don't think you can play Tower with any other ID besides Skyly, because people will refuse on principle because there's no SJS to be had (barring the odd private game, like Peppercat trying to get HP from Purple Mericarol or Skylar using two accounts to get a PW from Oran Gibbles). It's disappointing to see one of the most fun and challenging areas in the game be turned into an endless SJS farm with the other IDs might as well not existing because SJS is the only thing uber hunters want from Tower. Want a non-uber from Tower? Go fuck yourself; it's time for another Skyly PW4 with the same Gi Gues dropping money and shitty units again while drowning in Dragon Slayers dropped by a godamn endgame enemy. You have more success getting a non-Tyrell's Ego Ult Forest game going with any ID than a non-Skyly Tower.

At times, it feels like you're walking on a minefield when you want to play EP2 because each ID has like only 1 or two "awesome" weapons per ID, and said weapons are scattered throughout different areas instead of being concentrated in one location. It's not like EP4, where most IDs are fine for both major areas and people aren't going to shit a brick if you don't pick the single "correct" ID for a location.

EP4 is far too loaded with practical but awesome items, and the only challenge comes from learning the enemies' quirks (which you should know if you're seriously playing it in Ult) and their high attack values. A high-level Deband and Jellen takes away the only advantage Ep4 enemies have, making them ez to deal with. In EP4, I never have an "oh shit" reaction to certain enemies like I do the Mericarol, Gran Sorcerer, Baranz, Deldepth, Indi Belra, or even Dark Bringer. It feels like I'm on autopilot after grinding for an item in EP4 after a while because it's that simple.
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In my oppinion you guys are right. Besides the occasional uber that drops (lol if you find it occasional) it would be worth playing more if more reasonable shit drops. V502 would be a good one on a given ID or V801 on ep2 for instance. It might be a good idea as well to give a certain ID on ep4 a uber more or something (pinkal psycho wand or yellowboze SJS on Goran Detonator or (Pazu)zu, maybe eclair idc). Since we are talking about balance, you can't balance one episode without the other (hence why it is called balance). It is a good condiration the ID switch fest would be great as well imo xD.

Hunting 'just' ubers in ep2 is a bit demotivational.
 
I'm happy with things as they are however I would be fine with EP2 getting a small buff and Ep4 nerf to balance things out. Change is always fun, and I'd love more EP2 games. As long as it's not such a huge amount that Ep4 will become unplayed. And as long as it's still got some core items for hunts. (not completely destroyed).
 
Spuz said:
I'm happy with things as they are however I would be fine with EP2 getting a small buff and Ep4 nerf to balance things out. Change is always fun, and I'd love more EP2 games. As long as it's not such a huge amount that Ep4 will become unplayed. And as long as it's still got some core items for hunts. (not completely destroyed).
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Ill Gill limiter drop ftw :)
 
On one hand, I like that useful items for beginners such as v101, v502, v801 etc. drop in Ep 4. It's easier than Ep 2, so maybe it's better that new people can hunt needed items in Ep 4, rather than Ep 2.

And there's something to be said for keeping the Ep 4 things in Ep 4, for consistency.

The smartlink change is reasonable. I'd prefer keeping the v units in Ep 4 though. Maybe just give some of the esoteric Ep 4 things to Ep 2. If Ep 2 can't be buffed without Ep 4 being nerfed, I vote no.

edit : Also feel like you did a good job with the last balance, and would just prefer to keep it like this.
 
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Shovel said:
On one hand, I like that useful items for beginners such as v101, v502, v801 etc. drop in Ep 4. It's easier than Ep 2, so maybe it's better that new people can hunt needed items in Ep 4, rather than Ep 2.

The smartlink thing is reasonable. I'd prefer keeping the v units in Ep 4 though. Maybe just give some of the esoteric Ep 4 things to Ep 2. If Ep 2 can't be buffed without Ep 4 being nerfed, I vote no.

edit : Also feel like you did a good job with the last balance, and would just prefer to keep it like this.
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Giving some ubers to ep4 as well instead of 'very good items' would balance it in my opinion. It does change the dropcharts slightly though.
 
Shovel said:
On one hand, I like that useful items for beginners such as v101, v502, v801 etc. drop in Ep 4. It's easier than Ep 2, so maybe it's better that new people can hunt needed items in Ep 4, rather than Ep 2.

And there's something to be said for keeping the Ep 4 things in Ep 4, for consistency.

The smartlink change is reasonable. I'd prefer keeping the v units in Ep 4 though. Maybe just give some of the esoteric Ep 4 things to Ep 2. If Ep 2 can't be buffed without Ep 4 being nerfed, I vote no.

edit : Also feel like you did a good job with the last balance, and would just prefer to keep it like this.
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If we're gonna buff Episode 2, I feel like a slight nerf to Episode 4 is in order.

The reason for this is because Episode 4 has roughly 40 exclusive items that are worth something or other stacked into 2 areas. It's very, very good for the general hunter and playing Episode 4 constantly will make you a very rich man, as has been stated earlier in the thread.

Example: MA4B Whitill.

Thirteen, Black Hound Cuirass, Guren, V101, Ophelie Seize, Slicer of Fanatic, Ignition Cloak, Rambling May, Photon Crystal and V502 are possible drops.

While this can be said as a failing of the Episode 4 balance in general, I'd garner that the biggest flaw is there's so many exclusive items packed into 2 areas, and it's probably a good idea to move some of them out. The majority of really iconic stuff will stay, so V101, V801, Lame, Heaven Striker, Limiter, etc. isn't going to be moved out most likely.

The goal of said balance is to promote playing Episode 2 for rares that will become exclusive to it; without doing that, we'd have to make currently existing items straight up better to hunt in Episode 2, which is not the sort of balance we are going for as that is straight up power creep, something that will hopefully be avoided. It is a personal belief of mine that there must be a healthy balance of buffs and nerfs, you cannot just keep buffing.

Furthermore, here is an example of a Temple "buff" so people can get an idea of what would happen (note that this is not final):
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Top chart is the original, Bottom chart is an updated one. Orange tiles are ones that have been changed.
Note also that there's no rates here, but they will be adjusted so none of them are better than current hunts, and also adjusted so that if an item appears in an easier area, it will be much harder to drop.

I'm going to update the OP with a few more details, for example what is explained here; please note that votes can be changed if you ever change your mind (either way).

And one more thing, because this is related to something outside of Blue Burst's exclusive content, the community will be asked about possible changes rather than it being done totally on the administration-side to make sure people are as happy with it as possible (this is assuming it goes ahead of course).
 
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People are happy to suggest moving 1pd items into ep2 yet here are the top ep4 ultimate drops:
v101
v502
v801
v501
smartlink
Canon Rouge
Heaven Striker
Lame D'argent
Swordsman Lore
Limiter
Slicer of fanatic
Rambling may
Ophelie seize
Daylight scar
Yunchang
Heavenly Arms
Centurion ability
BOVN
Galatine
Tripolic Reflector
Chain Sawd
Berdysh
Tyrell's Parasol
Laconium axe
Mother Garb+
Heaven Punisher
Gratia
Yata Mirror
Syncesta
Photon Crystal
Vivienne
Shouren
Guren
Snake spire (I joke)
Ignition cloak
Lieutenant Mantle
Girasole
Thirteen
DoB
H Power
Vjaya
Siren Glass Hammer
H ability
Guardiana
Solferino
Heavenly Battle
Glide divine
Rage de Feu
Clio
BHC

Many of these items drop from different enemies on multiple ids and all have reasonable drops. How in any way is this balanced? What's the point of changing the drops around in the first place if insignificant changes are made? x)

Edit: When hbr is done on ep4, the boosted dar and possible rdr boost linking all these drops together is just too much.
 
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VENOM said:
People are happy to move 1pd items like smartlink into ep2 yet some of the top ep4 ultimate drops:
v101
v502
v801
v501
smartlink
Canon Rouge
Heaven Striker
Lame D'argent
Swordsman Lore
Limiter
Slicer of fanatic
Rambling may
Ophelie seize
Daylight scar
Yunchang
Heavenly Arms
Centurion ability
BOVN
Galatine
Tripolic Reflector
Chain Sawd
Berdysh
Tyrell's Parasol
Laconium axe
Mother Garb+
Heaven Punisher
Gratia
Yata Mirror
Syncesta
Photon Crystal
Vivienne
Shouren
Guren
Snake spire (I joke)
Ignition cloak
Lieutenant Mantle
Girasole
Thirteen
DoB
H Power
Vjaya
Siren Glass Hammer
H ability
Guardiana
Solferino
Heavenly Battle
Glide divine
Rage de Feu
Clio
BHC

Many of these items drop from multiple enemies on multiple ids and all have reasonable drops. How in any way is this balanced? What's the point of changing the drops around in the first place if insignificant changes are made? x)
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Is 'challenging' the right argument? I know the rest of it is not that hard but neither is ep1 or ep4, is it? I would be ok if v502 would be an ep2 exclusive, along with some other changes so when you do an uber hunt, you might get something else in return too. The impossible 1/300k drops are useless as well and for me can be dismissed too.
 
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