Episode 2 Drop Tables

Do you agree with the changes proposed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 105 77.8%

  • No

    Votes: 30 22.2%
  • Total voters
    135
  • Poll closed .
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Ade said:
Yes, but you'll be getting a free Section ID change, so you won't be at any loss.
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I guess you didn't see my post earlier where I ended this entire debate because I am perfect and my opinions are regarded as instantaneous fact.
I will elaborate on my genius opinions so you better understand;
This is a small community of veteran players. Most, if not all of us, have been discouraged in one way or another from playing on other private servers. If there are to be any changes made to this game, it should be to encourage us to want to play more and spend our time here. Having new Episode 2 drop tables seems like an encouragement to me, and, if handled properly, will increase people's interest in the server. To simultaneously lower the efficacy of Episode 4 drop tables to coincide with the Episode 2 drop table increase, however, is an obvious discouragement for people to play Episode 4.
Raising one standard while pulling another down to meet it is not an appealing idea. So, Ep2 Drop Change, yes. Ep4 drop change, no.
 
I'm still trying to figure out where ep 4 is being nerfed in the drops so badly so far from their 1st charts other than v502. A good number of items look like buffs.

Noticed they forgot about rupika as well though, would hate to lose that "ultimate" shield.
 
Yunchang, Tyrell's Parasol, and V502 are removed entirely from ep4. Purple loses Heaven Striker. Redria loses DoB. Viridia loses H/Arms. Yellow loses Lame. And nothing of importance is being added. Aside from the Boss drops, which I said earlier I have no problem with. Looks like a loss to me.
 
That's the idea.

A "loss" also doesn't equate to playing less, it just means playing differently. You claim it's a discouragement, maybe from Episode 4 specifically, but any sort of balance must have a healthy mix of buffs and nerfs. You cannot just buff, that is how power creep happens and games get dumb (See: Ultima or PSO2).

While this is quite not in the same league of adjusting classes or whatever, it's a slope I don't particularly want to slide down.
 
Matt said:
A "loss" also doesn't equate to playing less, it just means playing differently. You claim it's a discouragement, maybe from Episode 4 specifically,
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Yes. This will discourage people from playing Episode 4. We should encourage all types of play. Essentially saying "people have too much fun here, we better stop that" is what I want to avoid.
Matt said:
any sort of balance must have a healthy mix of buffs and nerfs. You cannot just buff, that is how power creep happens and games get dumb (See: Ultima or PSO2).

While this is quite not in the same league of adjusting classes or whatever, it's a slope I don't particularly want to slide down.
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I completely agree that power creep can happen and needs to be avoided. Although to say you can't only buff one thing without taking down something else is absurd. This game has been getting buffed drop rates since 2001. Obviously there is a healthy amount of buffing in there somewhere. I just worry that lowering one table will put us in the same boat we are in now, and in one year we will say "we should really change ep4's drop chart because people only play ep2".
Why not just avoid that issue altogether and slowly augment only the ep2 chart until we reach a healthy balance between them.
 
Because that's not what is going to happen.

We're not exactly axing Episode 4 that it's worthless, it's completely overpowered right now, we're just trimming it so Episode 2 can get some goodies.

Besides, if we were to buff Episode 2, what do you even suggest? A lot of people suggest making Episode 2 better, but how do you guys suggest we do that without making it better to play than Episode 1/4 currently?
 
Murdoch said:
I just worry that lowering one table will put us in the same boat we are in now, and in one year we will say "we should really change ep4's drop chart because people only play ep2".
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If that happens, you can drop an "I told you so" on us.

You're only seeing the end results of anything we've been talking about. There's a lot going on behind the scenes to make sure that nothing too outrageous could be let out into the wild. Take this for an example:

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We do appreciate the healthy skepticism, though - it keeps us in line and makes us need to justify what we're saying. If we can't justify a proposed change, then we shouldn't do it.
 
Bringer's DAR is actually 88%.

What fucking idiot thought it was 85% that's clearly 3% lower.
 
Murdoch said:
Yunchang, Tyrell's Parasol, and V502 are removed entirely from ep4. Purple loses Heaven Striker. Redria loses DoB. Viridia loses H/Arms. Yellow loses Lame. And nothing of importance is being added. Aside from the Boss drops, which I said earlier I have no problem with. Looks like a loss to me.
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-Viridia gets v101 from zu from v501. Kondrieu still has c/ability and shambertin has dragon scale
-Greenill gets c/ability and lib kit from pod stuff
-skyly gets lib kit and sword lore from pod bosses. lavis from gertablublu. Its kind of annoying that goran drop dragon slayer but meh...
-Blue gets h/hp from dorphan in trade of black hound, but ba boota loses parasol for BHC, it gets h/power from rappy though and gets v801 instead of yumchang from zu. lib kit from pod.
-purple get cannon rouge at least from rare dorphon at the cost. However rare boss drops HS now and dragon scales. So it didn't really lose hs
-pink gets v801 from zu now, granted don't know if guardianna being taken out is great.
-red gets lame in trade from its sof.
-oran rupika from the saint milion.
-yellow's lame is from rare boss now actually, it didn't lose it so far.
-white's getting limiter from rare boss
 
Well, it is about 80-20 for the change right now. I guess that is the majority of people. When will the new dropcharts get implemented?
 
Matt said:
Besides, if we were to buff Episode 2, what do you even suggest? A lot of people suggest making Episode 2 better, but how do you guys suggest we do that without making it better to play than Episode 1/4 currently?
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Already suggested, replace the items that were obsoleted with the broken ep4 items that make them obsolete. An effective buff of X does not necessarily require nerfing Y. Improving the rates for ep2 specific items should be more than enough to incentivize play. I'm referring to the stupid 1/10000 or 1/100000 drops here.
 
Well, the poll is over and since it's 77.8% to 22.2%, we're most likely going to go ahead with this sometime in the near future (most likely after the Easter Event).

Unlike the Episode 4 change, we won't just do it out of nowhere and will present updated proposed tables to make sure what we're doing is not more than people were expecting. Note that all established hunts will be staying (even weird design choices like Diska of Braveman in CCA), and what's going to happen is that useless drops will be padded up with something more substantial so that the episode is more reminiscent of Episode 1.

As for the "ridiculous rates", there is no clear consensus on those, so we'll see. Whatever the case though, if any of those are buffed, they will not compare to current uber hunts, so don't expect something like 1/12,000 hunts for Pinkal Zele or whatever, they'll just be buffed so they're more likely while you're playing in that area, rather than being straight up impossible.

Episode 4 is not going to be axed and most likely will still be the best thing to play in general, so you don't need to worry about that.

We'll be taking all concerns and thoughts into account, thanks for participating.
 
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