wrath of forest and path to salvation are bad quests

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Agastya

greyhound bus
Event Team
if at any point you walk into a room and you cant target every enemy with divine punishment or a technique then something is horribly wrong

before the monest room was removed you could just sit in a corner killing moths for like five minutes grinding out experience and event drops

these quests are setting an awful awful precedent for them since theyre basically just "here's _area_ but with 700 enemies" and i'm honestly afraid that any future quests will have to feel like they need to compete with these for people to play them. it's a terrible spiral.


i'd seriously rather see people grinding FIY for eggs than wotf/pts. you can complain about people only grinding ttf for experience but with these spamfests you can grind both exp and potential event drops. hell, pts has more enemies in ruins 1 than ma4c ep1 has across the entire quest.

seriously, look at this.

a4FZHyX.png

you have to be partied with a cast if you want to do any of this. you don't force casts. this is just instant gratification popcorn bullshit where you just try to get people giddy and happy that they're killing enemies.

also

this bullshit. THIS BULLSHIT RIGHT HERE.

qv5fV5M.png
F75C24L.png


this is fucking awful quest design. you know what this is akin to?

EdulOPn.png



i have this same problem with ragol rescue as well. it's just a shitton of enemies packed into spaces and then a random 1400 damage trap that kills you and forces you to fail the quest if you don't know about it.

a 1400 damage trap in fucking forest.

you should be ashamed of yourself.


nobody would even play fiasco for presents with this shit here. i'd rather see this get nipped in the bud now before we end up getting the caves quest where you just teleport into a room and there's 25 lilies in every spawn, or the mines quest where 15 baranz spawn around the room.

tldr fuck these quests
 

Spuz

Without rain, nothing grows.
*Currently in PTS, about to WoF after*

P.S. How can you not like Mario?
 

Nikki

meh...
If I remember right, these were ultima quests first. They're made with donators in mind to mow down tons of enemies with their OP weapons so they felt justified about their donations. Just thought I'd put that out there for people that might not know.
 

Zen

Member
It's actually a good thing that you need a full party with fleshies and casts to master PTS. This leads to teamwork and interesting strategies on how to gather/kill the waves in an effective way. I'm having a lot of fun playing it. The quest is perfectly fine, just learn where the megid traps are lol.
 

Nikki

meh...
This to be honest fam ^ It's been too long since we've had to actually learn quests, we've been facerolling PSO so long that learning something new seems intrusive to people. Give it a chance >LKA.
 

Agastya

greyhound bus
Event Team
It's been too long since we've had to actually learn quests, we've been facerolling PSO so long that learning something new seems intrusive to people.
today in pts i learned casts are good

The quest is perfectly fine, just learn where the megid traps are lol.
lee isn't here, you don't have to defend megid traps anymore

You were standing by Monests, and you didn't complain.
i was also the one who asked sodaboy to remove the monests
 

conenubi701

קרטל אל
you have to be partied with a cast if you want to do any of this. you don't force casts. this is just instant gratification popcorn bullshit where you just try to get people giddy and happy that they're killing enemies.
This is like saying "certain quests need FOs I don't like it, please remove it".

I ran a PTS without a cast not too long ago and sure it went slower, but it wasn't the end of the world. Casts aren't forced in PTS.

Also, didn't you run WoF / Monests a shit ton?
 

Spuz

Without rain, nothing grows.
Just because you don't enjoy it does not mean others do not.
 
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Matt

Administrator
Staff member
I think you guys need to actually read the original post and argue against the point of the thread instead of deflecting the argument and attacking Agastya.

The issue is that WoF/PTS are centralising and offer too much reward for too little effort. They're all anyone ever plays, especially during this event because of enemy counts.

Furthermore this is essentially quest power creep. If people want to create their own custom quests for people to play, they have to try to compete with the quests people are playing with if they want people to keep playing their quests, and this moves PSO away from pure item hunting to just (literally) mindless monster killing.

"I don't enjoy these quests" is not the argument presented in the first post. Stop making yourself look silly by arguing about how Agastya is dumb for "not liking the quests" or "finding the quest too hard". This is not the issue at hand.

For the record, I agree with Agastya on this subject and think the quests need to go, or be nerfed in some manner (like RoW or MAS, perhaps). You might want to try and convince me otherwise, and "I like the quest" is not a valid argument.
 

Spuz

Without rain, nothing grows.
They're all anyone ever plays, especially during this event because of enemy count.

You can nerf or delete them but when an event is on in which every enemy drops an item (Egg); surely it is to be expected that said quests with the biggest enemy count will be played by most over the period of that event. If we were not spamming this, we would all be spamming the next best thing. And personally reading the 1st post, it looks more like somone complaining due to their own incapacities and inabilities and thus taking it out on everyone who is enjoying the quests.

Zen said it perfectly.

It's actually a good thing that you need a full party with fleshies and casts to master PTS. This leads to teamwork and interesting strategies on how to gather/kill the waves in an effective way. I'm having a lot of fun playing it. The quest is perfectly fine, just learn where the megid traps are lol.


People may think they have to compete with power hungry monster killing quests but if they are any decent at making a quest they could design one that is fun and playable without doing so or having to compete. Assuming otherwise is insulting to any quest maker. And those that think they have to compete by adding shit ton of monsters are not clearly thinking enough about the quest.
 
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Nikki

meh...
To further that last point, I think Girth and Namakemono have done a very good job recently with making interesting quests on their own regardless of enemy counts (aside the hit detection going haywire and needin reworking). The community always puts out interesting things imo, and there's more than enemy counts/drop counts. There's area structure/enemy placement and specific types that count too. If it was too centralizing in specializing drops they woulda been removed, as Soda seems adamant about balance. I do agree there is a slight issue with almost absolutely requiring a cast for most PTS runs (unless you have RA's/HU's who actually know how to group enemies/para. I've already done a handful of great PTS without casts) but otherwise it is indeed learning. There's no attacks here, just stating simplistic facts.

tl;dr lets not take the Sakurai approach to this and nerf everything until its all mediocre.
 

anime

Bonsai Trees
Staff member
You can nerf or delete them but when an event is on in which every enemy drops an item (Egg); surely it is to be expected that said quests with the biggest enemy count will be played by most over the period of that event. If we were not spamming this, we would all be spamming the next best thing. And personally reading the 1st post, personally look more like somone complaining due to their own incapacities and inabilities and thus taking it out on everyone who is enjoying the quests.

I really don't think it's that Agastya is "incapable" or "unable" to do PTS... It's not exactly hard, just use the powerful "Freeze Trap" ability.

I agree that people will spam the quest with the most monsters, the problem is that PTS has nearly double the amount of monsters (920?) of the next highest quest. I'm pretty sure none of the "Christmas Fiasco" quests even reached 600 and they felt spammy as hell.

I'd estimate around 40% of vh/ult games in the past month or so have been WoF/PTS, even before the Easter Event. I don't have any proof though; I'm just in the lobby a lot and it's very common to see 10~ rooms up with either quest.

Again, some people will always spam the optimal quest in each episode for xp/drops, but PTS being nearly double the monsters of the next quest is ridiculous, there's literally no reason to play any other ruins quest for xp/drops. (It even has Falz!)

I think it should have drops removed, or at least have enemies nerfed in the "Secret Room".
 
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Ade

Curse Breaker
I agree with Matt, the OP, and anyone who agreed with them. These quests create a "Why bother with any other quest?" mentality for the areas they represent. We absolutely CANNOT allow that mentality to exist, or 95% of the game will become irrelevant. This happened with PSO2, which sucks now.

And yes, Girth and other designers have done a good job of making new and interesting quests that are creative in many ways, not just enemy counts.

Seeing how many enemies you can stick in one room does not make you a good quest designer.

PTS and WoF are aesthetically awful, to boot.

Kaizo bullshit should not be in an RPG.
 
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Nikki

meh...
-shrug- It just sounds like economy control woes to me, I just like killing large groups for the challenge. I have no problem playing other quests. Keep in mind though Ade, and others. That while events are active people will spam the biggest quests and then it usually goes back to normal. This has always been a thing and always will be and shouldn't be ignored when considering your argument. I mean we didn't complain on scht when ppl spammed RT/5-1 for Egg/Egg rappy during Easter there, nor do we complain about Fiascos being the only quest played.

The only viable complaint left that doesn't come from inability is people whining about the price of their tradeable items dropping in value.
 

anime

Bonsai Trees
Staff member
Like I said in my post, people have been spamming them since before the Easter Event. Even after the event is over, PTS will still be the best quest for experience and ruins drops for literally every ruins monster, why even have a "Monster Finding guide?"

I really don't think this has anything to do with the economy, the only drops that are really affected by PTS are God/Technique (Which you can get from Coren) and Spread Needle with hit (which I could care less about)
 

Agastya

greyhound bus
Event Team
That while events are active people will spam the biggest quests and then it usually goes back to normal.
normally the biggest quests are event quests and go away after the event ends

nobodys going to complain about fiasco being all thats played hen its christmas bc you only get to play the quest for a month and it goes away
 

Zen

Member
Nerfing or removing the quests would be awful. You could argue over and over about how it should or shouldn't be designed to fit the players' tastes but it's not leading anywhere. Just wait for the the event to end and I'm pretty sure they won't be played as much as they are right now.
Don't ruin the fun of those enjoying these quests.
 
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Ade

Curse Breaker
If "stuffing as many enemies into a room as possible" is going to cause people to never play quests that have interesting design or depth, it's going to harm the game overall. Why not just have a "Wrath" of every level and be done with it, then?
 
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