Tagging Experience

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Maybe EXP share in either only N-VH or Only ULT. But for some reason I feel the game would be a bit offset by the entire game having exp share. I certainly agree with the argument for newer players though.
 
FWIW it's the HUcast that should be having trouble tagging. Just have the force use Jellen/Zalure to tag the enemies and then the HUcast will have like, even less of a problem clearing the room.

EXP share would be a nifty mechanic though.
 
I just want to get into the meat of the game instead of getting bored on grinding TO GET to the meat of the game. And I need to find a way to pay back to all of those that have helped me. But I can't offer anything to them because I am still low level and can't farm anything worth anything to them yet.
 
Eh, personally I'm not particularly biased towards either side.

A party EXP system like the ones used in today's MMOs would be nice, and I noticed that PSU Clementine, and possibly the official PSU server prior to shutdown, has a similar system (though you gain significantly less EXP from enemies that you don't "tag", so you're still encouraged to at least hit as many enemies as you can for optimal EXP gains). The problem with the system in general, though, is that it encourages leeching, regardless of the system's normal intentions. It's not an issue when you're with friends/family that are low level but still do what they can to help, as they're still contributing to the efforts to clear the dungeon. But if you're in a lowbie-carrying pub with yourself as the only high level and everyone else being low level, there's a chance, however slight, that ALL OF THEM will stop either just outside the door (or JUST enough through the door that they're counted as being inside the room) and wait there (or FAR away from the enemy, as I've had to endure in more than one MMO/multiplayer game) until you clear the room, even if it's full of enemies that you have difficulty fighting on your own. I can't blame you on the Dorphon reasoning for wanting this system, though. I've had a personal vendetta against Delbiters ever since the first time I encountered them as a level 34 HUmar, and I do what I can to murder them before they become a threat, regardless of whether or not anyone tags them. But that's often the exception to my playstyle, not the rule. And in general, the only real way to discourage "leeching" is to have penalties for those that don't actively contribute to dungeon/quest completion (i.e. the significantly reduced EXP in PSUC). Again, not saying your friend would do absolutely nothing to help in the dungeon run (in fact, I encourage the opposite). Just that, more often than not, there are people who would rather be carried to endgame without having to do anything beyond moving when necessary than actually having to DO something to reach endgame.

As for the system we have now, I'm neutral towards it. Is it a bit inconvenient to wait for people to tag enemies before killing them? Yes (with certain exceptions where waiting for a debuff is more preferred). Is it unfair for segments where there's too many enemies to allow for safe tagging/grouping, or particularly powerful enemies that can slaughter the entire party if allowed to do so? Yes. Is it frustrating when my RAmar/RAmarl-main brother 2/3-shot (1-shot with Dim line) kills an enemy before I have a chance to get to it myself with my HUnewearl/HUcast without resorting to handguns with the Hunter/Force ranged ATA penalty? ABSOLUTELY! (Though to be fair, he's usually lower level than me since he plays less, so I keep my complaints to a minimum until he catches up.) But for the most part, I don't really have an issue with the system itself. I usually try not to focus primarily on leveling during team play (especially during timed quests since speed is necessary, and stopping to make sure everyone gets EXP means less time to clear without VERY generous time bonuses), instead focusing on team cooperation since I feel that's more important in general. Helping someone grind levels isn't particularly effective if they don't learn to properly play their class/role prior to Ultimate, since it's a whole different beast compared to N-VH and you WILL be destroyed if you can't properly adapt (Forces in particular start becoming more support-focused in Ultimate outside of glass-cannon nuke setups).

Furthermore, I'm personally one who prefers a mixed playstyle: playing multiplayer whenever I feel like it/have people to run with, but with solo play as a means of general level/stat progression. It's actually much more effective than you think, particularly in Seasons where TTF Dragon can't be farmed for fast EXP and the only other place for EXP farming in multi is an Ep. 4 quests that's only truly beneficial for Forces with Gifoie at a good level (any other method in that quest is apparently slower in comparison). While it's true that EXP you gain from solo is lower (albeit slightly), and I can personally admit that solo play in general is tougher for Forces (particularly FOney; I will agree that playing one is an absolute PAIN early game, even in solo), the enemies are also weaker than in multiplayer dungeons/quests, and some quests pair you up with NPCs that could potentially be helpful (and some who aren't as helpful, i.e. Nol/Elly, but the quests they're in typically aren't that great EXP-wise anyway). In fact, some quests are even part of subplots that you can trigger, a couple of which gives equipment as rewards (particularly the Soul Eater, a pretty good all-class partisan that can be obtained as early as Normal difficulty if you properly complete the Kireek subplot, and makes the transition to Hard difficulty much less troublesome if you can equip it). Any EXP I missed out on during multiplayer sessions (particularly those involving my brother, as I pointed out) could be made back, and more, in solo sessions, and the side stories/subplots are at least interesting and expand on what you learn from normal dungeons.


All that being said, I do feel there SHOULD be sort of a compromise: keep the system the way it is, but have a few additional functions that count as "tagging". I agree that support-focused players are a bit shafted because they don't have many means of tagging enemies outside of debuffs and possibly Gifoie (Barta at best/worst due to low damage but low TP cost and piercing). But as I pointed out, there's a significant difference between being weak but still contributing to a dungeon run in some form, and being weak but doing absolutely nothing to help the one who's trying to level you, and measures should be in place to discourage the latter.


And while I'm mainly speaking from (Solo) HUmar experience here, I also agree that opening a fight with Jellen/Zalure on grouped enemies/bosses makes many fights easier (though HUmar can only reach level 15 in both and has absolutely no means of increasing their range afaik). It can be done with a Force/HUcast combo as well, if the HUcast gathers enemies towards him and allows the Force to apply at least Zalure before attacking. Certain enemies like Bringers and Delbiters should be hit with debuffs on sight, though, as grouping/luring them is generally more dangerous. Of course, Delbiters are one of the enemy types you'd typically save a Freeze Trap for as an android anyway, so that also takes priority over fighting them head-on.
 
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TaoChaos said:
It sounds like you are a Force? Or at least you have some techs at your disposal. One nice thing about the "tagging" system is that debuffing counts as a "hit", so if you run around casting jellen the enemies won't be able to kill you as fast, and you get the exp.
Now, what sucks is that you get more experience for killing the enemy than tagging. That essentially screws the support classes, since in Ultimate I don't think you can 1-hit KO anything with techs. You will always be behind your buddy in levels. It's a turn mechanic, but it is what it is. Now, the flipside is that as a support character, you are always desirable in a party because as savage as a HUcast is, slap a coat of shifta/deband and he becomes god.
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And I have been trying to take people's advice. I have been trying to go with Jellen to tag things. I guess I just need to accept the fact I will always be behind everyone else. I just hate it makes me feel weak or useless and I love to keep my party on their feet, so they can keep throwing punches without worrying about dying.
 
The system at present actually encourages bad inefficient play to level efficiently so this seems like a preferable system in that regard.

I think I prefer a system that doesn't penalize a low level ranger, from an experience standpoint, for immobilizing more dangerous enemies with a FS versus tagging everything in sight with a Spread Needle =)

Just as the PSO 2 drop system prevents behavior detrimental to the team in regards to looting something like this or a version there of could make games more enjoyable =)
 
@Chronos Notashi
I'm not completely convinced leeching will play out as people who side against it will, however I will say this. If leeching ever does become a problem, measures against it are simple. It's not hard to leave a group that involves leeching or later on implementing a kick function against leechers. The server isn't that large; ostricization is a valid means here as well.
 
I'll put another thought on the subject of "leeching".

If someone is actively not participating in a group again and again to get to end game then a blacklist isn't too far behind them.

If someone is actively not participating in a group because someone is helping them power level to end game then who the fuck cares? Its not like someone leveling up faster is gonna impact anyone else's experience outside of maybe not knowing some mechanics(which you're gonna have to ask questions or read up on some stuff anyways for ULT) The people who want to get better at the game will seek out that info when they encounter a wall.
 
I'd say the way this game is designed and how its goals are oriented, it's completely detrimental to sit back and leech. Helping the group wipe out monsters is not only more efficient, but much more fun. The path to 200 is a journey, not somewhere you need to be before starting endgame content. There's so little benefit in leeching that doesn't already exist in the game with PSO2 drop mode (and I've never encountered anyone that has deliberately holed themselves up in Pioneer 2 just to sweep the floor later afterwards). Leeching would almost solely be done by those who could never contribute in the first place (ie. being carried in TTF).
 
Chronos Notashi said:
Eh, personally I'm not particularly biased towards either side.

A party EXP system like the ones used in today's MMOs would be nice, and I noticed that PSU Clementine, and possibly the official PSU server prior to shutdown, has a similar system (though you gain significantly less EXP from enemies that you don't "tag", so you're still encouraged to at least hit as many enemies as you can for optimal EXP gains). The problem with the system in general, though, is that it encourages leeching, regardless of the system's normal intentions. It's not an issue when you're with friends/family that are low level but still do what they can to help, as they're still contributing to the efforts to clear the dungeon. But if you're in a lowbie-carrying pub with yourself as the only high level and everyone else being low level, there's a chance, however slight, that ALL OF THEM will stop either just outside the door (or JUST enough through the door that they're counted as being inside the room) and wait there (or FAR away from the enemy, as I've had to endure in more than one MMO/multiplayer game) until you clear the room, even if it's full of enemies that you have difficulty fighting on your own. I can't blame you on the Dorphon reasoning for wanting this system, though. I've had a personal vendetta against Delbiters ever since the first time I encountered them as a level 34 HUmar, and I do what I can to murder them before they become a threat, regardless of whether or not anyone tags them. But that's often the exception to my playstyle, not the rule. And in general, the only real way to discourage "leeching" is to have penalties for those that don't actively contribute to dungeon/quest completion (i.e. the significantly reduced EXP in PSUC). Again, not saying your friend would do absolutely nothing to help in the dungeon run (in fact, I encourage the opposite). Just that, more often than not, there are people who would rather be carried to endgame without having to do anything beyond moving when necessary than actually having to DO something to reach endgame.

As for the system we have now, I'm neutral towards it. Is it a bit inconvenient to wait for people to tag enemies before killing them? Yes (with certain exceptions where waiting for a debuff is more preferred). Is it unfair for segments where there's too many enemies to allow for safe tagging/grouping, or particularly powerful enemies that can slaughter the entire party if allowed to do so? Yes. Is it frustrating when my RAmar/RAmarl-main brother 2/3-shot (1-shot with Dim line) kills an enemy before I have a chance to get to it myself with my HUnewearl/HUcast without resorting to handguns with the Hunter/Force ranged ATA penalty? ABSOLUTELY! (Though to be fair, he's usually lower level than me since he plays less, so I keep my complaints to a minimum until he catches up.) But for the most part, I don't really have an issue with the system itself. I usually try not to focus primarily on leveling during team play (especially during timed quests since speed is necessary, and stopping to make sure everyone gets EXP means less time to clear without VERY generous time bonuses), instead focusing on team cooperation since I feel that's more important in general. Helping someone grind levels isn't particularly effective if they don't learn to properly play their class/role prior to Ultimate, since it's a whole different beast compared to N-VH and you WILL be destroyed if you can't properly adapt (Forces in particular start becoming more support-focused in Ultimate outside of glass-cannon nuke setups).

Furthermore, I'm personally one who prefers a mixed playstyle: playing multiplayer whenever I feel like it/have people to run with, but with solo play as a means of general level/stat progression. It's actually much more effective than you think, particularly in Seasons where TTF Dragon can't be farmed for fast EXP and the only other place for EXP farming in multi is an Ep. 4 quests that's only truly beneficial for Forces with Gifoie at a good level (any other method in that quest is apparently slower in comparison). While it's true that EXP you gain from solo is lower (albeit slightly), and I can personally admit that solo play in general is tougher for Forces (particularly FOney; I will agree that playing one is an absolute PAIN early game, even in solo), the enemies are also weaker than in multiplayer dungeons/quests, and some quests pair you up with NPCs that could potentially be helpful (and some who aren't as helpful, i.e. Nol/Elly, but the quests they're in typically aren't that great EXP-wise anyway). In fact, some quests are even part of subplots that you can trigger, a couple of which gives equipment as rewards (particularly the Soul Eater, a pretty good all-class partisan that can be obtained as early as Normal difficulty if you properly complete the Kireek subplot, and makes the transition to Hard difficulty much less troublesome if you can equip it). Any EXP I missed out on during multiplayer sessions (particularly those involving my brother, as I pointed out) could be made back, and more, in solo sessions, and the side stories/subplots are at least interesting and expand on what you learn from normal dungeons.


All that being said, I do feel there SHOULD be sort of a compromise: keep the system the way it is, but have a few additional functions that count as "tagging". I agree that support-focused players are a bit shafted because they don't have many means of tagging enemies outside of debuffs and possibly Gifoie (Barta at best/worst due to low damage but low TP cost and piercing). But as I pointed out, there's a significant difference between being weak but still contributing to a dungeon run in some form, and being weak but doing absolutely nothing to help the one who's trying to level you, and measures should be in place to discourage the latter.


Also, I'm mainly speaking from (Solo) HUmar experience here, but I also agree that opening a fight with Jellen/Zalure on grouped enemies/bosses makes many fights easier (though HUmar can only reach level 15 in both and have absolutely no means of increasing their range afaik). It can be done with a Force/HUcast combo as well, if the HUcast gathers enemies towards him and allows the Force to apply at least Zalure before attacking. Certain enemies like Bringers and Delbiters should be hit with debuffs on sight, though, as grouping/luring them is generally more dangerous. Of course, Delbiters are one of the enemy types you'd typically save a Freeze Trap for as an android anyway, so that also takes priority over fighting them head-on.
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The whole leeching thing I just don't get. If you have someone leeching off your team, why not just leave the party? or have a vote to kick option(maybe future thoughts)? You can avoid leechers. There are like what 200 people playing on this server? It's like a small town, word gets around and everyone knows everyone. I've played games with leechers and that's how I avoided them, but most those games had options to vote to kick. Edit: leeching was more for loot than a leveling aspect.

Leeching is just something that shouldn't even be considered. Experience only matters early game to get to the meat of the game. Once you get to that point, you want to grind for good gear so experience isn't even a thought. Everyone tells me experience won't even be a thing later on, so why is changing the exp gain such an issue?
 
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70 Ult is the true solution
 
I think we should have a share system. I don't see a reason not too. And if people are worried about leeches, have a setup like the new loot system where you can choose. That way people who are worried can change it to classic for tagging, and others can do it as new style so they can help friend, or just so everyone in general gets exp.
 
Koko said:
And I have been trying to take people's advice. I have been trying to go with Jellen to tag things. I guess I just need to accept the fact I will always be behind everyone else. I just hate it makes me feel weak or useless and I love to keep my party on their feet, so they can keep throwing punches without worrying about dying.
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*POUNCES and Hugs warmly!* Koko-chaaaaan! Spoken like a true 'plushie! <3 Don't get discouraged! Yes, early on you may feel like you're lagging behind in a particular run...but does that make you any LESS Important??? HELL NO! =3! So long as you play the game unselfishly, putting others before yourself, you will Never feel the frustration others will have that make them wanna Quit PSO! 17 Years of playing PSO and not Once had mew ever had a twinge of feeling insignificant simply because she had a weak character or not flailing around wildly with a Flow or TJS etc...Ok, getting splattededed at a boss and not being revived may be miff worthy...but seeing others beat the boss using your support can feel right too =P. And in case you ever feel disheartened...maybe mew's Plushie poem may bolster you? https://www.pioneer2.net/community/threads/pso-poet-society.606/
 
Koko said:
And I have been trying to take people's advice. I have been trying to go with Jellen to tag things. I guess I just need to accept the fact I will always be behind everyone else. I just hate it makes me feel weak or useless and I love to keep my party on their feet, so they can keep throwing punches without worrying about dying.
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Yeah, it's kinda one of those things that's common in MMOs in general. Whether it's in levels or power, a support-focused character will ALWAYS be behind their allies in terms of survival or killing power, and grinding in general is more difficult with a support character due to lack of sufficient damage options (in this case, Forces have to decide whether to use their TP for offensive techs or conserve TP/TP-restoring items for support usage based on the situation). Heck, in most MMOs, people only take support classes for EXP farming/item grinding if 1) they need the healing/support for a dungeon that's difficult even for end-game players, or 2) the choice of class for the slot the support takes holds no real impact on the end result (such as in carry runs, as the leader and possibly one other character would be powerful enough to clear on their own regardless). If neither apply, the support is usually replaced with another DPS for faster enemy/boss killing and faster EXP gains, and tanks usually get the shortest end of the stick in this regard due to usually lacking in anything outside of taunts and self-preservation skills (ex: defensive self-buffs and the occasional self-healing). Of course, there's no denying that support classes become much more useful once they get to end-game and have good equipment. It's just actually getting there that's the issue. Still, as someone who mainly plays physically-focused DPS classes, I would be lying if I said I didn't appreciate my brother's dedication towards playing as a tank class (despite its lack of DPS and party support), grabbing the enemy's attention, and never letting go for more than the occasional random-target boss skill (or AoEs, obviously, but I'm talking about single-target attacks). Kind of a shame he went for a RAmarl as his Seasons character instead of a RAcaseal simply because none of the RAcaseal customization options had what he was looking for.


Oh, and some advice for later: while using Jellen to tag is a good tactic, you shouldn't neglect Zalure (the defensive debuff). While reducing an enemy's physical power is good, there are times where reducing the enemy's defense first is better (usually it's better to prevent damage entirely, and killing the enemy before it has a chance to strike is one way of doing so), and a couple times where you want to disregard Jellen entirely. Two notable examples of the latter are the last phase of Dark Falz on Hard or higher (since its only physical attack always does a set amount of damage regardless of its attack/your defense, which means Deband is also useless for that phase, if not the entire battle), and Gal Gryphon.

The latter needs explaining. If an enemy hits you, normally you'll be staggered and unable to move for a bit. But if its attack is high enough compared to your defense, you'll get knocked down instead (know that you'll see this A LOT as a FOnewearl whenever you take damage). However, this is often seen as the more preferred outcome, as while you're knocked down (but not dead), you'll be invulnerable until you get back up and for a brief moment after (enough to heal back up if you queue up a heal). Gal Gryphon starts with enough attack that any of its attacks will knock down even high DFP classes. Reduce it's attack too low compared to your defense, though, and it won't knock you down with any of the hits from its multi-hit trampling attack, which means it will RUN YOU OVER AND LEAVE YOU DEAD ON THE FLOOR if it so much as nicks you with the first hit or two. So don't cast Jellen AT ALL during that boss, as getting hit and knocked down is a lot better than getting hit multiple times in quick succession for a guaranteed K.O (Deband might still be useful if your teammates will still have low-enough defense to be knocked down by the trampling attack).

Koko said:
The whole leeching thing I just don't get. If you have someone leeching off your team, why not just leave the party? or have a vote to kick option(maybe future thoughts)? You can avoid leechers. There are like what 200 people playing on this server? It's like a small town, word gets around and everyone knows everyone. I've played games with leechers and that's how I avoided them, but most those games had options to vote to kick. Edit: leeching was more for loot than a leveling aspect.

Leeching is just something that shouldn't even be considered. Experience only matters early game to get to the meat of the game. Once you get to that point, you want to grind for good gear so experience isn't even a thought. Everyone tells me experience won't even be a thing later on, so why is changing the exp gain such an issue?
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First point I'll address: "leaving the party". Why do you think I use solo play as my general means of progression in PSO (and MMOs in general) in the first place? I only party with those that I know will pull their own weight in a dungeon, regardless of skill level (ex: my brother, but good luck doing any sort of enemy farming quickly since he's...particularly determined when it comes to looting everything in a quest or dungeon. And I mean everything). If none are present, I run solo, since if I screw up it's my own fault, and not because I was forced to fight a multiplayer-level enemy by myself (many MMOs these days have both solo and party modes, with the party mode having stronger enemies that are meant to be fought with a team and soloing them is only possible with insanely-high gearing, if even possible at all prior to a cap increase. PSO is the exception though, since it's multiplayer quests and areas aren't AS punishing when played solo compared to other MMOs). More often than not, I typically find myself being a solo player these days, because I've found it difficult to find people that are actually willing to contribute and aren't so elitist (or so extremely uncomfortable with their own skill level) that they'll only run with "the best of the best".

As for the "Kick" or "Blacklist" option, I do have to agree that it would be useful for keeping leechers from being an issue, especially if one doesn't want to always lock their rooms behind a password to avoid them (especially since a lot of people already do that, and we all know how people complain about not being able to play with others because of that), and it's kinda one of the "measures" that I was implying (besides what I mentioned concerning PSUC's EXP system). But that would assume that the option would be implemented along with a party EXP system in the first place (there's a chance it might not, for fear of being "abused" for purposes other than what it's intended for). If it's not implemented, then we're right back at square one, where the only way to avoid leechers is to always lock rooms behind a password and give a middle finger to honest players whose only crime is not being important enough to know the password.

Of course, this is all assuming that it would even be possible to change the way EXP distribution is handled in the first place. If EXP distribution is something that can't be altered, then these discussions and suggestions are entirely pointless. A staff member would have to confirm whether or not changing the "tagging" system to something else is possible without breaking the game/server (in a technical sense, not in a balance sense).
 
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Chronos Notashi said:
First point I'll address: "leaving the party". Why do you think I use solo play as my general means of progression in PSO (and MMOs in general) in the first place? I only party with those that I know will pull their own weight in a dungeon, regardless of skill level (ex: my brother, but good luck doing any sort of enemy farming quickly since he's...particularly determined when it comes to looting everything in a quest or dungeon. And I mean everything). If none are present, I run solo, since if I screw up it's my own fault, and not because I was forced to fight a multiplayer-level enemy by myself (many MMOs these days have both solo and party modes, with the party mode having stronger enemies that are meant to be fought with a team and soloing them is only possible with insanely-high gearing, if even possible at all prior to a cap increase. PSO is the exception though, since it's multiplayer quests and areas aren't AS punishing when played solo compared to other MMOs). More often than not, I typically find myself being a solo player these days, because I've found it difficult to find people that are actually willing to contribute and aren't so elitist (or so extremely uncomfortable with their own skill level) that they'll only run with "the best of the best".

As for the "Kick" or "Blacklist" option, I do have to agree that it would be useful for keeping leechers from being an issue, especially if one doesn't want to always lock their rooms behind a password to avoid them (especially since a lot of people already do that, and we all know how people complain about not being able to play with others because of that), and it's kinda one of the "measures" that I was implying (besides what I mentioned concerning PSUC's EXP system). But that would assume that the option would be implemented along with a party EXP system in the first place (there's a chance it might not, for fear of being "abused" for purposes other than what it's intended for). If it's not implemented, then we're right back at square one, where the only way to avoid leechers is to always lock rooms behind a password and give a middle finger to honest players whose only crime is not being important enough to know the password.

Of course, this is all assuming that it would even be possible to change the way EXP distribution is handled in the first place. If EXP distribution is something that can't be altered, then these discussions and suggestions are entirely pointless. A staff member would have to confirm whether or not changing the "tagging" system to something else is possible without breaking the game/server (in a technical sense, not in a balance sense).
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If you only play with certain people/solo, then why are you defending the whole leeching thing when it will never pertain to you?

And according to Matt and others, it's been a topic of suggestion for what seems at least a year or two before and hasn't been dismissed due to not being able to change.

I just haven't seen a good enough reason or enough points to convince me otherwise.
 
Harborer of Hope said:
*POUNCES and Hugs warmly!* Koko-chaaaaan! Spoken like a true 'plushie! <3 Don't get discouraged! Yes, early on you may feel like you're lagging behind in a particular run...but does that make you any LESS Important??? HELL NO! =3! So long as you play the game unselfishly, putting others before yourself, you will Never feel the frustration others will have that make them wanna Quit PSO! 17 Years of playing PSO and not Once had mew ever had a twinge of feeling insignificant simply because she had a weak character or not flailing around wildly with a Flow or TJS etc...Ok, getting splattededed at a boss and not being revived may be miff worthy...but seeing others beat the boss using your support can feel right too =P. And in case you ever feel disheartened...maybe mew's Plushie poem may bolster you? https://www.pioneer2.net/community/threads/pso-poet-society.606/
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You're awesome. Don't stop being awesome.
 
Koko said:
If you only play with certain people/solo, then why are you defending the whole leeching thing when it will never pertain to you?
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Your confusion is noted, and your comment implies that I only EVER played with certain people/solo, when my early days of MMOs were quite the contrary.

To be honest, I used to be one of those people who ran with just about anyone who was willing to accept me (when I was still pretty much a novice in most games). Did that for a good few years, and even joined random parties in Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate to try to make decent advancements or just generally find people to have a good hunt with. But, as you could imagine, one's outlook on the MMO/multiplayer world and some of its aspects can change quite a bit over time when friend/party requests from lowbies (I'm talking level 1 (or minimum to form parties) and barely even scratched the game's surface) become more frequent the higher level you are, and you start seeing more and more people in your parties who could be seen as more of a hindrance than a help when, in some games, their presence artificially increases the difficulty of the enemies for everyone else while they themselves just stand by and do nothing to help. I only eventually gravitated towards only playing with certain people and solo because it eventually got to the point where I just got tired of constantly ending up with players who didn't want to actually try. Doesn't help that some MMOs actually encourage the habit by adding systems (ex: a "mentor" system) that give benefits to those who carry low levels, which is something that's just ASKING to be abused by alt abusers and leeches/leech carriers.

So you COULD say that my experience of having to deal with leeching because every game developer/publisher had the same idea of not actually doing anything to discourage the habit and instead discourage actually learning how to play the game/cooperate with actual teams UNTIL mid/end-game kinda soured my view of them, and actually encouraged me to be more cautious of who I team up with. IF I team up with anyone. I now only ever team up with randoms/those I'm unsure of if a game gives me no other choice concerning team play. Honestly, I just want a game where I can actually experience good team play with those beyond my usual restrictions without having to worry about pulling all of the weight by myself (one game came close, but it was kinda hit or miss whether or not I found someone who didn't just rush into enemy groups and burn all of their revives before begging for mine (an act that I hate worse than leeching, and is grounds for an instant boot whenever I'm leader). And THAT was on a good day when I could actually find/make a party at my tier).


And it's rather interesting that you mention Matt saying something about party EXP being brought up as a suggestion. I remember that one time, one time, he brought up the idea of making the process of leveling from 60-80 easier for newer players while keeping the total EXP required for lv 200 unaffected. He even had a pool to get people's opinion of the change. It was a change I personally didn't mind, either. After all, if people wanted newer players to reach Ultimate faster and have more people to play with (or not have as difficult a time leveling ID-farming alts), then even without party EXP, people would be fine with the leveling process being faster, right? And yet nothing came of it. It was ultimately shot down, even AFTER it was pointed out that the milestone boost change would be happening regardless of the decision (I'm pretty sure the milestone boost change was announced at around the same time), and thus the grind to level 80 is just as tedious as it's always been. We just get an EXP boost about once every month rather than once for each week the community hits the maximum number of kills required, meaning that outside of EXP week we have to rely on pure grind for EXP regardless of what EXP system is in place. Not even a proposal to provide more incentive for players to use their level 200 characters was accepted. So even if I DIDN'T have my concerns about a party-based EXP system for PSO (one large concern being how EXP in general would be handled in light of all players gaining EXP regardless of their performance. I mean, would everyone get 100% of an enemy's base EXP? Would it be split based on the number of party members like some MMOs do? So many question that would need to be answered before I'd be willing to overlook the leech concern.), the fact that two proposals of similar nature got shot down in the past and this topic is STILL being tossed around without it becoming a proposal after 1-2 years doesn't instill a great deal of confidence.

P.S. For those who have been on other servers in the past, did they ever manage a party-based EXP system, or did they still stick to the original PSO system?
 
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Koko said:
He is able to kill things faster than me because he does twice the damage than I do and I get stuck with healing him all the time because he is a HUcast.
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If you want to enjoy PSO, make a point of never playing with HUcasts. They basically have their own game that is separate from the game the other 11 classes play, and EXP sharing won't solve the problem of you being bored because the HUcast destroys everything before you even get a chance to participate. (Note: this isn't a troll. There really is no other solution that doesn't involve modifying HUcast's stats if you don't want playing the game to always feel like a race as you desperately try to keep up with the HUcast.)

Aside from how broken HUcast's stats are, the notion that the game doesn't start until level 80 is quite pernicious, in that it portrays the early game as a barrier to reaching the "real" game, rather than as... part of the game, which in turn discourages new players from trying PSO. People get pressured to spam TTF to reach level 80, even though it's probably the most boring way to gain experience and thus can actually cull the playerbase by telling people that they have to do something incredibly not fun in the hope that they will reach something that is fun "some day". The only players who survive this crucible are future tryhards who also espouse the notion that the early game doesn't count, because they were never given the opportunity to enjoy it, and thus the community becomes more and more elitist and less and less welcoming to new players who want to enjoy everything the game has to offer, rather than only a small slice of the game that caters to a certain playstyle.

The real problem is the players, not the game. There was a time when people actually helped each other level up even to the detriment of their own progress, because they thought about whether their friends were having fun, and not just about their own personal gain. The notion that being efficient is the "correct" way to play has eaten away at the PSO community like a cancer, and this is what we're left with: rather than adjust their own tactics so that their teammates can eke out even a modicum of enjoyment, the proposed solution is to just hand out EXP to everybody so that nobody has to give a single thought as to how their own choices affect their teammates. You'll still be trailing behind the HUcasts and picking up their leftovers, but at least you'll get to level up while you're not having fun!
 
Honestly Aleron Ives kinda said everything that kinda makes whatever I would have left to say on party EXP pale in comparison, and he's definitely right about HUcast. My Seasons character is a HUcast, and he can tear through enemies that, as a HUmar or any other class, I would struggle against, and can even do so in a party WITHOUT buffs (though I still get a little annoyed when my brother forgets that I'm not the one in charge of buffs/debuffs for this Season). Simply because, despite the fact he has no methods of healing outside of mates and has to resort to certain weapons/mag triggers/M&Y for self-buffing, he has EVERYTHING he needs to be an one android army.

Insane ATP growth AND insane max ATP? Check.
Best growth rate for Freeze/Confuse traps to more easily deal with threats/mobs himself? Check.
High chance of inflicting paralysis with specials WITHOUT needing a v501/v502 (and being even better WITH one)? Check.
The ability to see traps WITHOUT having to use a Trap Vision or equip a certain frame? Check
No TP/MST and poison/paralysis immunity, meaning that casts don't have to worry about carrying fuilds/anti's unless mag feeding or asked to do so? Check.
No issues with determining priorities for hotkey slots due to not having to worry about techs? Check.
Good HP/DFP growth AND natural HP regen to compliment his offensive power? Check.
The ability to wield powerful and sought-after melee weapons before anyone else? Robot lovers would LOVE the HUcast.

Only real downside is the lack of ATA, but even THAT isn't an issue for long (especially if RNGesus loves you and forces a Gilchic to drop the android-only S-Parts for +15 ATA). And once that's out of the way, there's not a whole lot that can stop a HUcast from going on a rampage, and they're even more unstoppable when buffed with a high/max IQ M&Y or a Force. Decreased Demon's effectiveness isn't even a concern either unlike with the other androids, since his ATP more than makes up for it.

Honestly, as far as I remember reading, the only class that could compare to the HUcast in sheer power was the HUmar, but that was in the Dreamcast version when HUmar still had Shifta/Deband instead of Jellen/Zalure. In every version past that, HUcast has no equal.


So if you're feeling weak or useless because your friend is able to kill everything before you even get a chance to touch them, then shared EXP isn't going to fix that problem. You'll be leveling up, but your friend will still be the one doing all the killing while you follow behind him picking up what he doesn't and keeping his HP topped off and ATP/DFP buffed and not getting hits/debuffs in unless he lets you. Again, that's the curse of playing a support class: he does all the killing (moreso as a HUcast), while your only job is to keep him alive and make sure he CAN do the killing. That's not really going to change until you actually start fighting enemies that he CAN'T swat like flies even when buffed (and there's not many of those outside of Ep. 4 and Ultimate). If you want to better enjoy being a support or support/damage hybrid and feel that your contributions actually matter, then your friend's going to have to change to a class that DOESN'T break the game over its knee once it gets the ball rolling.
 
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