Solomode Quests and Photon Drop Increase

[Septar]

Incentivizing group play by limiting solo play seems like a very archaic approach to game design. And with a smaller game population it's just plain silly. From what I've seen if people have a group available to play with they're going to choose to play with a group over any minmax efficiency solo.

In Path of Exile the largest reason people don't play in groups is optimization, the game cooks even good computers with all of the stuff that flies around in that game. And for the hardest bosses, most people fight them solo because the health multiplier is very steep when the bosses have billions of hp. And again, it's really difficult to fight bosses with all of the crap that flies around.

But even with these massive drawbacks to group play, people still play in groups when available because 1. It's safer. There are a lot of mechanics that different party members can utilize to buff each/others. This is especially prevalent in the hardcore leagues. And 2. Many people find it more fun. Whenever a solo player is asked why they don't play in parties they always give the same two reasons "Solo self found" or, significantly more commonly and less memey, "It's too laggy." But even the most stubborn of solo players will admit that if they had someone who was willing to be a dedicated support who was always available to play with when they were playing, they would definitely play with them.

It's also worth noting that there is a small subculture in the PoE community of a "solo self found(SSF)" style of gameplay, but it is largely in response to how many players feel that trading is too cumbersome. PoE also has a large presence of "competitive ARPG" players who feel that group play is too easy and a smaller subset of that population feels the need to prove their ARPG prowess by playing SSF.

I can't imagine there being any significant drawbacks to allowing solo players to play everything that multimode players can. I strongly doubt that there are >5 players who would choose solo play over group play when both choices have equal access. If anything, it would increase the overall playtime on the server and potentially increase the likelihood of groups forming as there would be more people on the server playing for longer periods of time since they no longer have to sit around waiting for their group members.

 

[Cookie]

Thanks for explaining the PD drop chance @Matt. This means, PD drops are influenced by DAR. Ever since the removal of DAR punish, we already get almost twice as many PDs in every 4 player game. We also get more PDs during +25% DAR weeks and when grinding HBR. So if there's people desperate for PDs, there are more than enough ways to farm them already.

 

[VENOM]

Thanks for explaining the PD drop chance @Matt. This means, PD drops are influenced by DAR. Ever since the removal of DAR punish, we already get almost twice as many PDs in every 4 player game. We also get more PDs during +25% DAR weeks and when grinding HBR. So if there's people desperate for PDs, there are more than enough ways to farm them already.

But people get proportionally increased rare drops, the value remains the same (too many items in circulation and not enough pds to give them any real value)

 

[TaoChaos]

I just discovered the Retrieval quests in solo mode and I fucking love them. Doubling down on my vote for moving more quests into solomode.
Happy Friday
<3 me

 

[Ade]

I can't imagine there being any significant drawbacks to allowing solo players to play everything that multimode players can. I strongly doubt that there are >5 players who would choose solo play over group play when both choices have equal access. If anything, it would increase the overall playtime on the server and potentially increase the likelihood of groups forming as there would be more people on the server playing for longer periods of time since they no longer have to sit around waiting for their group members.

This is an extremely good point. Very perceptive!

 

[Cookie]

But people get proportionally increased rare drops, the value remains the same (too many items in circulation and not enough pds to give them any real value)

At the core, it's a simple misbalance of supply and demand. Not sure, but I think you can't raise demand by handing out more PDs. Also, as mentioned before: Don't do any drastic changes before the season ends. Then wait and see how the market develops naturally. Then take a closer look again and see if there really is a problem. Every change now would just be rash and emotional.

One problem I see with such a drastic change is insecurity, which could have a negative effect on trading in general. Who wants to sell stuff, if it could be doubled in price soon? Doubling the PD drop rate does not mean all prices will immediatly double as well, because PDs in bank don't get doubled. The price would rise over time, but as time goes by, the supply of items rises, too. So in the end, we could see no change at all. Only the rare stuff, stuff that is already expensive, would/could see a change in price.

This is an extremely good point. Very perceptive!

It could also make people lazy and just start solo games instead of waiting only 1 or 2 minutes.

 

[NDW]

It could also make people lazy and just start solo games instead of waiting only 1 or 2 minutes.

I witnessed someone hosting a TTF Ultimate party recently. Host only got 1 person to join in a period of 28 minutes. The party ended up disbanding because no one else would join.

 

[Dongra]

It could also make people lazy and just start solo games instead of waiting only 1 or 2 minutes.

Yup, doing the whole quest by myself instead of waiting for 3 other people to do it for me is really lazy.

 

[lostinthought87]

At the core, it's a simple misbalance of supply and demand. Not sure, but I think you can't raise demand by handing out more PDs.

It's also a liquidity issue, which can be addressed by modifying the supply of the currency, or more precisely, the ratio of the currency supply to goods. The existence of stock splits has proven that this is an effective technique.

 

[Cookie]

Look, it's whatever. As long as noone is ever again complaining about too many people soloing.

EDIT: For me personally, there is nothing wrong with accepting the fact, that some quests are multimode exclusive and if I want to play them solo, then I have to deal with tougher enemies.

 

[Straycat]

Look, it's whatever. As long as noone is ever again complaining about too many people soloing.

Huh, I really don't remember any complaints about there being too much soloing on this server. I believe the issue was that there was too many people who were locking/"resing" 2p/3p rooms because they believed filling the party with ("bad") randoms was a waste of DAR.

 

[anime]

I believe the issue was that there was too many people who were locking/"resing" 2p/3p rooms because they believed filling the party with ("bad") randoms was a waste of DAR.

That hardly happens, only with "good" players who play a lot. Elsewhere & Tankstelle are the only teams I can think of with players who would do that.

All I have to say about the rest of your post is that Ephinea has gone through many different balance paradigms, and soloing has been a "problem" a couple times before.

 

[VENOM]

I'm looking forward to the poll closing so we can stop arguing and get back to playing pso together!

But seriously though, vote for both, I promise it will be beneficial

 

[Cookie]

It's also a liquidity issue, which can be addressed by modifying the supply of the currency, or more precisely, the ratio of the currency supply to goods. The existence of stock splits has proven that this is an effective technique.

But the problem is, that PDs in banks will not double over night, right?

I'm looking forward to the poll closing so we can stop arguing and get back to playing pso together!

We disagree, doesn't mean we can't be friends or whatever.

I like to squeeze out every little PD in a trade, instead of being like "Sure, here's 3 stacks, idc.". That's why I can't really understand the schtserv nostalgia. But whatever the decision is in the end, everybody will just adept to the change.

 

[Septar]

It could also make people lazy and just start solo games instead of waiting only 1 or 2 minutes.

There's a pricing strategy used for some products called a "loss leader," the idea being that a product is sold at a loss in order to entice customers into a store or a platform so that they'll spend money on more profitable items. Solo play being an equally viable way to play the game would entice more players to play the game for longer periods of time because they would have more ways to spend their time without feeling like they're wasting their time banging their heads against a wall with notably tougher enemies that were balanced specifically for group play.

More players playing longer periods of time -> Higher potential for groups to form -> more players. Yeah, you will lose some "lazy" (impatient) players. And yeah, you'll probably attract a large number of solo players too. But those players are the "loss leaders" in this case.

Like I said, outside of theoretical hyperbolic cases, I have a hard time imagining the change being unhealthy for the server. But I am new to the server(Not at all new to PSO). I'm basing my assessment off of watching Path of Exile's growth from the beginning and how people felt about solo/group play as the game was being developed and fleshed out.

 

[marineBlue]

If people want to play solo, let them play solo.

If people want to play with their friends only, let them play with their friends.

If there exist people who want to lock out bad players, then let them. If you try to force them to play with bad players you'll just see more drama of bad players being shamed or some shit (insert the classic Dark Flow memes here).

There's so many reasons why people choose to play a certain way and you have no power to dictate on how they should play. There is no reason to stalk the game list all day either (how else did you find out this stuff?), if you want people to play with you (and there are no current open games), make a game and wait for people to join

 

[Metaldude]

I only played solo previously (excluding box runs) because I didn't want to hunt shit and have it swept away by somebody else. I greatly prefer having a group if at all possible. I also just didn't like the idea of me personally hunting something and everyone else being along for the ride. PSO2 drop mode fixed any issues I ever had with wanting to play in groups. I don't think it'd be an issue at all to make all multi quests available in solo.

 

[fishhao]

I always sold at a loss because I prefer seeing more ppl play at ultimate and enjoying it a bit, instead of getting spooped by the first Sand Rappy that 1hkos them

 

[lostinthought87]

But the problem is, that PDs in banks will not double over night, right?

Correct, but there will be an immediate effect due to the collective knowledge that PD's are more common as well as a delayed effect once the PD supply begins to normalize. Both will result in market corrections.

 

[Ade]

Let's say the dollar was the lowest possible denomination. No quarters, no pennies, etc. If that happened, we would all possess plenty of stuff that we feel is worth less than a dollar, but we would have no way to sell it unless we traded it for a combination of other goods and dollars (or ripped ourselves / others off). This would make it more difficult to do business. One way to fix this would be to create more dollars so they decrease in value relative to goods. Same concept here.

Yes, we could argue that X Meseta is worth one PD, but Meseta is so incredibly easy to get that, once we attempt to set a ratio, it would change when people farm it in excess. There are SET PD SINKS in this game, so it will always maintain objective value. If activity increases then sure, the amount of items found will increase, but the increased PD rate will run concurrently with the increased item pool. Being able to spend a PD without feeling bad about it will mean that goods will flow more freely from one user to another, player satisfaction and sense of accomplishment will increase, and people will play more.

The only time the PD truly collapses is when everyone has 100% on all of their gear and all of their S-Ranks, and they have nothing left to spend them on. This natural course would take 20 years as it stands. So, if we cut it down to 10, then who cares? At least those 10 years will be full of enjoyable progress instead of stagnation. This has to be balanced against people giving up because they feel the road is too ridiculously long. (So, I suppose those of you who don't want this change can enjoy "muh vanilla" alone if you get your way.) You have to think long-term here.

This is the end goal, right? To increase interest in the game?

(That "final" point would also be a good time to add a new difficulty, lol)

Sure, you can always hunt for items with more hit. Not in a million years could someone get 100% hit on everything. But hunting for "more hit" by itself is not enough to motivate most people.