Solomode Quests and Photon Drop Increase

What should be done?

  • Both

    Votes: 86 52.4%
  • Quests

    Votes: 50 30.5%
  • Photon Drops

    Votes: 6 3.7%
  • Neither

    Votes: 22 13.4%

  • Total voters
    164
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Matt

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Hey guys,

We've been paying attention to what the playerbase likes and dislikes, and what their complaints are, so we want to suggest two small changes based on what people have been saying:
  1. Adding all quests to One Person mode.
  2. Increasing the Photon Drop rate in general.
You can find explanations below as to why these have been discussed for some insight.

One Person Quests

Sometimes you log on, want to play a certain quest, but nobody else does. Soloing it in multiplayer feels like a chore and isn't fun, and you don't particularly feel like doing anything else so you just log off.

Furthermore your pure nuke FOnewearl isn't that useful either, she excels when playing alone but there just isn't much content there.

Generally most games allow you to solo everything if you so choose, and with the PSO2 DAR reduction being removed, solo will not automatically be better than playing with others. This is simply to give the players more options when they decide they want to play PSO.

Photon Drop Increase

Due to a lack of photon drop duping on Ephinea, Photon Drops have a lot of purchasing power. Problem with this is, it makes a lot of items fall below being worth a Photon Drop, and even some of the rarer items are worth a small amount of Photon Drops due to how valued Photon Drops are.

The sinks are large too (no, they're not changing), and getting the Photon Drops for all your S-Rank Weapons or Spheres is a very time consuming task. If you have to juggle gaming with life, the grinds might just feel like they're not worth doing at all.

We want to suggest increasing the amount of Photon Drops by some amount to lower the value of the Drop. It's essentially artificial inflation, but the game doesn't feel very rewarding when you hunt for a Lame d'Argent for a week and can only get 5 Photon Drops for it due to the market.

We don't want to make getting specs on your S-Ranks or Sphering become easy though, so it will still be a lengthy grind.

Before anyone comments, yes I am very aware it's possible to farm specific items for mass PDs, but that's the problem. You should be able to just play and find some nice things along the way for some PDs, rather than having to go after things like the V-units all the time.

Also we're aware of certain features and events destroying the economy as well, we will make sure a repeat of things like Christmas 2017 don't happen again.

Changes like this have happened in the past (such as buffing hit rate to 5% across the board, a requested change), so this isn't that unprecedented.)

What we want to ask is, what does the community think of this? Note that if either of these changes end up impacting things negatively (assuming they happen), they will be reverted.
 
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Honestly, your average player doesn't really need hundreds of PDs in their bank to play this game. Look at how the majority of the original ephinea players started from scratch. I think that quest exploit for quick PDs killed a rather large needof PDs from a decent amount of players and grew the "wealth gap" even more between the relatively new players and the already well geared players. Hopefully this postdoesn't get removed, sinceI'd appreciate it if this issue was able to be talked about openly instead of causing drama or the staff panicking to delete/sweep under the rug the events that lead to this.

Lame D Argent is cheap because most of the well establishedplayers that were around for the 20h Excalibur event with hit want something better. Same with 30hit, Zanba's/Slicer Of Fanatic/ etc etc etc.

While dumping more pds into the economy sounds good at the beginning (hey I love the idea of more pds with less of a grind, I rarely play normal mode since I'm already well geared and prefer battle mode/challenge mode), i don't believe it should be a permanent solution.

Also, my phone keepsfucking upsorry for any formatting issues.
 
My problem with the Photon Drop increase is that it seems to solve a problem that doesn't exist. The "issue" that keeps coming up is the perception of a PD's value, especially relative to previous servers, and not its actual value. I think the argument's a bit circular, since it boils down to something like "well, Lames are only worth 5 PDs", but then... 5 Photon Drops have a lot of value, so it's not "only" 5 PDs, since you can do a lot with those 5 PDs. Just because the number looks low doesn't mean its actual value is low. PDs having a lot of purchasing power is a good thing, since any player can get a single PD and buy something like a Spread Needle or Frozen Shooter. New players being able to quickly purchase starter gear is a huge plus around here, IMO. Adding PDs to the economy just seems really unnecessary to me.

That said, the solo quest idea is cool. Go for it.
 
I'm personally not a fan of increasing the PD drop rate, just because I personally feel rewarded enough by the drops now. I like getting a PD and knowing it has a lot of purchasing power. Also, it would be more annoying to have to store PDs in more character banks because they drop more :lenny:
 
PDs having a lot of purchasing power is a good thing, since any player can get a single PD and buy something like a Spread Needle or Frozen Shooter. New players being able to quickly purchase starter gear is a huge plus around here, IMO.

As a new player I definitely agree with this.
 
1. One player quests- 100% yes, now pso2 dar has no penalty this is a must for QoL imo. Feelsresta when no one else is online, or them not wanting to do the quests you want to do. Would be a nice reward for forces since they are often limited in multimode quests.

2. 2x pds- I support this change also. What it comes down to is; people who don't really Sphere or spec many SR- this change wouldn't really impact them. But for those who have to fork out 99pd for a PS from Paganini know the struggle.

As for people saying items its good that items are cheap etc, surely the price will adapt proportionally. Eg: SN for 1pd, post pd drop buff, SN for 2pd. (Finding 2pd would essentially be the same difficulty as finding 1pd previously).

Also, B> Pd stack limit of 255 :wacko:
 
You guys complained quite a lot in the past about too many people playing solo, so I guess your opinions changed on that matter? Giving players more options, I can understand... This doesn't really affect many quests though, since most of them are already available in solo, despite Max Attack, boss rushes and some custom quests. Not sure if making boss rushes available in solo is such a good idea.

If I'd put it blantly, I'd say that you complain about items having no value, but then remove DAR punish (heavy buff for all rare enemy drops including Lame and rare drops in general) and now putting boss rushes in solo (easier to farm boss drops including RR and PGF) and to compensate that, you want to double PD drop rate, so people spend more PDs ... idk ... make it "feel" like the item is worth more. But as already mentioned by Venom, this is basically just a shift, it doesn't really change anything. All it changes is halfing the price of Photon Spheres.

And my opinion on Photon Spheres and sphering in general still stands. Sphering items is just nice to have. In all my years of PSO, I've never sphered an item and it was never a problem. Imo the average player doesn't care if they can beat Dark Falz 10 seconds faster. Sphering is just for people who don't have anything else to do anymore and by halfing the price of PS, all it does is make them quit PSO faster, because they reach their dream equipment faster.

The game needs to feel rewarding. If it feels more and more like sandbox, then why even play normal anymore.

EDIT: Oh and I just saw the current vote results. I hope you ignore them in your decision making process because you're basically just asking "WHO WANTS FREE CANDY?".
 
I'm personally not a fan of increasing the PD drop rate, just because I personally feel rewarded enough by the drops now. I like getting a PD and knowing it has a lot of purchasing power. Also, it would be more annoying to have to store PDs in more character banks because they drop more :lenny:
As a new player I definitely agree with this.

Over the long run your purchasing power stays the same (and potentially increases for some items in circulation at the moment) as the rate you find PDs will be the same as the PD inflation which occurs.

What will devalue are items which are absolutely anchored to PDs at the moment which are used to exchange for rewards (as long as these are not altered), e.g.
  • PDs and spheres currently in circulation
  • Sphered weapons
  • S ranks

The people who should really be upset about purchasing power are the ones who will have their items lose value in terms of PDs (in terms of the real value), but having PD inflation should bring greater prosperity to the ephinea economy as there is more liquidity.

You guys complained quite a lot in the past about too many people playing solo, so I guess your opinions changed on that matter? Giving players more options, I can understand... This doesn't really affect many quests though, since most of them are already available in solo, despite Max Attack, boss rushes and some custom quests. Not sure if making boss rushes available in solo is such a good idea.

If I'd put it blantly, I'd say that you complain about items having no value, but then remove DAR punish (heavy buff for all rare enemy drops including Lame and rare drops in general) and now putting boss rushes in solo (easier to farm boss drops including RR and PGF) and to compensate that, you want to double PD drop rate, so people spend more PDs ... idk ... make it "feel" like the item is worth more. But as already mentioned by Venom, this is basically just a shift, it doesn't really change anything. All it changes is halfing the price of Photon Spheres.

And my opinion on Photon Spheres and sphering in general still stands. Sphering items is just nice to have. In all my years of PSO, I've never sphered an item and it was never a problem. Imo the average player doesn't care if they can beat Dark Falz 10 seconds faster. Sphering is just for people who don't have anything else to do anymore and by halfing the price of PS, all it does is make them quit PSO faster, because they reach their dream equipment faster.

The game needs to feel rewarding. If it feels more and more like sandbox, then why even play normal anymore.

EDIT: Oh and I just saw the current vote results. I hope you ignore them in your decision making process because you're basically just asking "WHO WANTS FREE CANDY?".

It won't make the average player quit sooner as their ambition wasn't even to sphere their weapons in the first place. An increased rate of PDs still means an average player would take the same amount of time to find their dream equipment as the value of items increases with PD inflation (and item drop rates etc. stay the same). It will affect them getting things such as s ranks though, but these aren't long grinds in comparison.

So in the end, the average player will just see higher PD numbers and little effect on their grinds, and helps people who want to sphere their gear.
 
Tfw pwand costs 600pd and you need 6 characters to hold all your pds to buy your weapon lol

Pwand only costs ~300. The only time it sells for more is when someone is really desperate to have it.

On the subject of the changes, I'm for both of them. Having more PDs in the economy is always a good thing. I would like to have all quests in solo mode for TA purposes. Since I can't put together a 4p team, it would be nice to have some solo projects for me to work on. I barely have motivation to play right now as it is. Being able to sphere my gear easier and have new goals to work towards is a good thing for me I think (should I still be playing this game?). That's just my thoughts though.
 
Don't care about solo mode, but as far as pds go. When I first started on this server, September of 2016, I was broke.
I remember buying a demon rifle for 6 pds from Arch and I only had two pds at the time. So he let me pay him as I found them. Which was exciting, I actually felt like PD's were worth something.
Then as time went on I had to make very hard decisions on what to purchase first for my RAmar. Because I knew when I bought something I was going to be broke for the next two weeks to a month maybe!

It was fun grinding for stuff to sell, and making those hard decisions on what to get first for your character.

I feel, if it is easier to obtain pds, some newer players might not have the pleasure of really grinding for PDs and making tough choices, which I thought was a fun part of the game when I started.

One other reason I don't support it, is because if this is really considered like inflation, then its like an invisible tax. Just like in the real world economy, all our pds lose vaule. Inflation is never a good thing imo, I would rather keep the PD strong like the Euro, vs it making it cheap like the Chinese Yuan.
 
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I usually only play Multiplayer with my team or if someone is hosting a lobby with a quest I'm interested in farming, which doesn't appear too often. But if my team isn't on I like to solo farm, and it does become kind of a drag being limited to what I can solo farm since a lot isn't in one person mode, so would definitely be nice. It wouldn't limit me to only playing that, just something to do instead of just standing around waiting for my friends to come on.

And as a relatively new player to this server, I think I've gotten photon drops pretty fast and naturally. If I got them any faster than I already am, they might become overwhelming. But I've only traded a little bit, and I don't trade often either since hunting items myself/with team is more fun.

*Edit: I don't think I've played long enough here nor trade enough to be able to state an opinion on the photon drops, but I still like the idea of solo quests.
 
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My problem with the Photon Drop increase is that it seems to solve a problem that doesn't exist. The "issue" that keeps coming up is the perception of a PD's value, especially relative to previous servers, and not its actual value. I think the argument's a bit circular, since it boils down to something like "well, Lames are only worth 5 PDs", but then... 5 Photon Drops have a lot of value, so it's not "only" 5 PDs, since you can do a lot with those 5 PDs. Just because the number looks low doesn't mean its actual value is low. PDs having a lot of purchasing power is a good thing, since any player can get a single PD and buy something like a Spread Needle or Frozen Shooter. New players being able to quickly purchase starter gear is a huge plus around here, IMO. Adding PDs to the economy just seems really unnecessary to me.

That said, the solo quest idea is cool. Go for it.

We're getting into semantics if you want to talk about the "perception" of a PD's value and its "actual" value. Saying "a photon drop is worth 1/99th of a photon sphere, that's its *actual* value" is the same circular thing as saying "a dollar bill is worth 1/100th of a hundred dollar bill"

If you really want to think about 5 PDs in terms of their "actual" value (in terms of what SEGA established, with respect to the PSO-metagame) then thinking about them as being 1/8th-1/12th of the way to an S-Rank special or being an additional 1% to an attribute is more appropriate. Suddenly, 5 PDs don't seem like they're worth a lot in terms of their actual value. You bringing up Spread Needles and Froozers being so cheap leads me to my next point.

I say that we're getting into semantics because in real-world economics, inflation is adjusted based on a basket of goods and services. Financial institutions literally calculate the value of currency based on staple goods in the real-world market. It is completely appropriate to judge the value of a PD based on what it can purchase in Ephinea's market. Just like in the real world, if the staples of Ephinea's economy continually decrease in price, the effective value of a PD decreases as well. This is a legitimate phenomenon that's occurring, and it's not something players are just "perceiving." I can respect your opinion with regards to whether it's a problem or not, but we should acknowledge its existence.

Ephinea is a great place for new players, undeniably. I think it's great that Rangers can effectively be relevant in Ultimate mode (at least E1/E4) with almost no PD investment. But because these staples of the economy are so prevalent due to past events (I'm talking about things like hitless Spread Needles and hitless Froozers), they have contributed to devaluing a PD. If staples in Ephinea's economy weren't so easily obtained from prior events, I can assure you that the value of a PD would be higher than what it is now, though I guess that's getting into an entirely different discussion...

You guys complained quite a lot in the past about too many people playing solo, so I guess your opinions changed on that matter? Giving players more options, I can understand... This doesn't really affect many quests though, since most of them are already available in solo, despite Max Attack, boss rushes and some custom quests. Not sure if making boss rushes available in solo is such a good idea.

If I'd put it blantly, I'd say that you complain about items having no value, but then remove DAR punish (heavy buff for all rare enemy drops including Lame and rare drops in general) and now putting boss rushes in solo (easier to farm boss drops including RR and PGF) and to compensate that, you want to double PD drop rate, so people spend more PDs ... idk ... make it "feel" like the item is worth more. But as already mentioned by Venom, this is basically just a shift, it doesn't really change anything. All it changes is halfing the price of Photon Spheres.

Now that there is no longer a DAR penalty for increased party members, it makes complete sense. Opinions have probably changed due to the DAR penalty removal. Previously, people were soloing mostly because it could've potentially given you a better effective chance at getting the item you want (factoring in the time required). Now with the penalty removed, multiplayer is almost certainly the best way to get a specific item that you want, especially if you have friends who'll give you the item if it drops for them.

You barely see anyone doing PW4 reset hunts for SJS, even though it's now a *much* easier hunt in solo-mode. It has always been faster to rush Olga in free-roam solo mode, yet we don't see people doing it. We're not going to suddenly see an influx of people spamming solo RT in hopes of finding a PGF.

And my opinion on Photon Spheres and sphering in general still stands. Sphering items is just nice to have. In all my years of PSO, I've never sphered an item and it was never a problem. Imo the average player doesn't care if they can beat Dark Falz 10 seconds faster. Sphering is just for people who don't have anything else to do anymore and by halfing the price of PS, all it does is make them quit PSO faster, because they reach their dream equipment faster.
In your own words, it seems like this change will not affect you, especially if you are not interested in sphering your items. Why would you be against this particular change if it does not affect your play, and only benefits others?

If you really want to think about the average player in terms of sphering, they won't "get their spheres in half the time and quit faster", they were never thinking of sphering in the first place.

To me, sphering is the truest form of PSO end-game that is possible within the game's limitations. I have personally not sphered a single item either, unfortunately. That is not to say I don't want to. I have only a few items I'd consider worth sphering, but between S-Ranks and gearing up multiple characters, it has never been economically feasible for me to sphere anything, especially when I take into account the current market versus the current value of a PD... which brings me to my last point.

Ephinea's economy is at a standstill currently. The normal mode trade forums are fucking dead. You can say that this is attributed to seasons, but if you look at the posts in the trade list section, you would see that the same amount of inactivity has continued since before seasons started. Auctions have been the same way. Look at current auctions and before seasons started. Same amount of dead-ness. I expect there to be a lot more activity when seasonal players rejoin normal mode, but it will only revert back to being dead again soon.

The game needs to feel rewarding. If it feels more and more like sandbox, then why even play normal anymore.

EDIT: Oh and I just saw the current vote results. I hope you ignore them in your decision making process because you're basically just asking "WHO WANTS FREE CANDY?".

I agree wholeheartedly that this game needs to feel more rewarding. It's a slap in the face when you finally find the item you're looking for, but it drops with crap attributes. You can look at this in two ways, depending on your personality or way of thinking.

One way is: when you finally get the drop you're seeking, with the correct attributes, I can agree that it is extremely rewarding. On the other hand, it is extremely un-rewarding to continuously get sub-optimal attributes, considering the amount of time you invested in getting the drop. Unfortunately in PSO, the only value you can potentially get out of a sub-optimal drop is by selling it. And as long as people keep selling things for cheaper and cheaper, the value/reward that you get out of a drop will continue marginally decreasing.

Modern games alleviate this problem with a disenchanting/crafting/re-rolling system. That way, even if you get a crappy drop, it at least has some sort of guaranteed fiat value. Developers have realized just how soul-crushing it is to players for them to spend hours hunting something, only for it to not be what the player was looking for, and effectively worthless to them. Again, the only potential reward you can get from a sub-optimal drop in PSO is from selling it, and with how dead the economy is, you'll have a hard time nowadays.

I guess I'll just close my ramblings with this: all government financial institutions increase/decrease the interest rate or provide some sort of stimulus packages when they can see their economy is suffering. Something needs to be done about the current state of Ephinea's economy. The proposed change is something that can actually help.
 
Just to clarify:
#1 If I ever find an item worth sphering, I will do that.
#2 When talking about sphering I do not have the average player in mind. This is for elite players, who don't have anything else to do, so they start sphering. By making spheres cheaper, those players will either vanish sooner (reached all their goals) or lobby all day, because nothing is worth their time anymore.
 
We're getting into semantics if you want to talk about the "perception" of a PD's value and its "actual" value. Saying "a photon drop is worth 1/99th of a photon sphere, that's its *actual* value" is the same circular thing as saying "a dollar bill is worth 1/100th of a hundred dollar bill"

If you really want to think about 5 PDs in terms of their "actual" value (in terms of what SEGA established, with respect to the PSO-metagame) then thinking about them as being 1/8th-1/12th of the way to an S-Rank special or being an additional 1% to an attribute is more appropriate. Suddenly, 5 PDs don't seem like they're worth a lot in terms of their actual value. You bringing up Spread Needles and Froozers being so cheap leads me to my next point.

I say that we're getting into semantics because in real-world economics, inflation is adjusted based on a basket of goods and services. Financial institutions literally calculate the value of currency based on staple goods in the real-world market. It is completely appropriate to judge the value of a PD based on what it can purchase in Ephinea's market. Just like in the real world, if the staples of Ephinea's economy continually decrease in price, the effective value of a PD decreases as well. This is a legitimate phenomenon that's occurring, and it's not something players are just "perceiving." I can respect your opinion with regards to whether it's a problem or not, but we should acknowledge its existence.

Ephinea is a great place for new players, undeniably. I think it's great that Rangers can effectively be relevant in Ultimate mode (at least E1/E4) with almost no PD investment. But because these staples of the economy are so prevalent due to past events (I'm talking about things like hitless Spread Needles and hitless Froozers), they have contributed to devaluing a PD. If staples in Ephinea's economy weren't so easily obtained from prior events, I can assure you that the value of a PD would be higher than what it is now, though I guess that's getting into an entirely different discussion...



Now that there is no longer a DAR penalty for increased party members, it makes complete sense. Opinions have probably changed due to the DAR penalty removal. Previously, people were soloing mostly because it could've potentially given you a better effective chance at getting the item you want (factoring in the time required). Now with the penalty removed, multiplayer is almost certainly the best way to get a specific item that you want, especially if you have friends who'll give you the item if it drops for them.

You barely see anyone doing PW4 reset hunts for SJS, even though it's now a *much* easier hunt in solo-mode. It has always been faster to rush Olga in free-roam solo mode, yet we don't see people doing it. We're not going to suddenly see an influx of people spamming solo RT in hopes of finding a PGF.


In your own words, it seems like this change will not affect you, especially if you are not interested in sphering your items. Why would you be against this particular change if it does not affect your play, and only benefits others?

If you really want to think about the average player in terms of sphering, they won't "get their spheres in half the time and quit faster", they were never thinking of sphering in the first place.

To me, sphering is the truest form of PSO end-game that is possible within the game's limitations. I have personally not sphered a single item either, unfortunately. That is not to say I don't want to. I have only a few items I'd consider worth sphering, but between S-Ranks and gearing up multiple characters, it has never been economically feasible for me to sphere anything, especially when I take into account the current market versus the current value of a PD... which brings me to my last point.

Ephinea's economy is at a standstill currently. The normal mode trade forums are fucking dead. You can say that this is attributed to seasons, but if you look at the posts in the trade list section, you would see that the same amount of inactivity has continued since before seasons started. Auctions have been the same way. Look at current auctions and before seasons started. Same amount of dead-ness. I expect there to be a lot more activity when seasonal players rejoin normal mode, but it will only revert back to being dead again soon.



I agree wholeheartedly that this game needs to feel more rewarding. It's a slap in the face when you finally find the item you're looking for, but it drops with crap attributes. You can look at this in two ways, depending on your personality or way of thinking.

One way is: when you finally get the drop you're seeking, with the correct attributes, I can agree that it is extremely rewarding. On the other hand, it is extremely un-rewarding to continuously get sub-optimal attributes, considering the amount of time you invested in getting the drop. Unfortunately in PSO, the only value you can potentially get out of a sub-optimal drop is by selling it. And as long as people keep selling things for cheaper and cheaper, the value/reward that you get out of a drop will continue marginally decreasing.

Modern games alleviate this problem with a disenchanting/crafting/re-rolling system. That way, even if you get a crappy drop, it at least has some sort of guaranteed fiat value. Developers have realized just how soul-crushing it is to players for them to spend hours hunting something, only for it to not be what the player was looking for, and effectively worthless to them. Again, the only potential reward you can get from a sub-optimal drop in PSO is from selling it, and with how dead the economy is, you'll have a hard time nowadays.

I guess I'll just close my ramblings with this: all government financial institutions increase/decrease the interest rate or provide some sort of stimulus packages when they can see their economy is suffering. Something needs to be done about the current state of Ephinea's economy. The proposed change is something that can actually help.

^

Dayum, THIS! I would have never been literate enough to formulate my opinion so well, that summarizes what I'm thinking perfectly.

All everybody has been doing recently is whining about how the economy of this server is dead, the value of items keep dropping, it's impossible to sell anything, etc. Yet, when a solution is proposed to alleviate this problem, only a minority is agreeing with it. I guess I don't get people sometimes...
 
I can't say anything for the economy in NM but HC economy basically almost doesn't exist and collecting PD's for your sranks/spheres (which is end-game meta, this is where players aim to be*) is almost impossible to amass regardless of the extra 30% RDR. I would wholeheartedly welcome this change.

I also disagree with ''people sphereing items faster will make them leave faster'', because the people who are willing to put the effort into amassing those pd's and sphereing are the few players that actually stick around on the game over time. Not to mention they are sphereing items not to ''reach a goal and quit after'' but to play the game and optimize their gameplay and that grind will almost never end. A player will quit because they are bored of playing the game too much regardless of sphereing anything or not. Even if the majority of people are not wealthy (newer players), it's not like having more pd's will effect them negatively. What it will do is make the economy stronger thus easier for players of all varieties to trade for stuff they want.

---

I also think the quests being in solo is a good change. I personally dislike playing solo and I much prefer playing with others. I also feel people should play together if they have the choice but some people prefer to solo, and that is their choice to do so. Being limited when there are no games to join or nobody is hunting the item you need feels kinda shitty. But being able to access any quest solo means even if people are not around you can still hunt what you want. And for those who like solo, it means more variety of play. I don't think it will really change the amount people solo or not. People who solo a lot will always solo a lot regardless of how many quests there are and others who like to play in groups will still do so.

I have also never sphered an item after over 2 years+ of constant gameplay (every day all day PSO only). Except with event PS.
---

*Players whom care about advancing themselves within the game. Obviously, not all players aim to be going for sranks/spheres. In fact the majority are casual players and do not aim for this and just want to play without caring which is also fine but I feel those players getting more PD's will just make the economy stronger and easier to obtain what they want to have fun with.
 
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