Post-200 Grind (Level 250)

[Cassie 9]

are you against the idea of rewards post-200 in general, or just the look of it saying "Lv250" next to your name?

Yeah, I'd be 100% happy if it was a different leveling system or something, not just tacking on more levels after 200. Another tab with separate levels would placate me. Especially because the extra 50 levels feel like a different "goal" to me. And I understand that this is perhaps just my nostalgia or my "insecurity," lol, but adding more levels just feels like adulterating that beautiful 200 with a different quest. So post-200 perks absolutely make sense, I'm just not sure it should be with 201+ levels.

 

[Ade]

I feel like the discussion is getting more cohesive, so kudos to all. I know I get pretty intense, so thanks for being patient

 

[BlitzkriegAJ]

Yeah, I'd be 100% happy if it was a different leveling system or something, not just tacking on more levels after 200. Another tab with separate levels would placate me. Especially because the extra 50 levels feel like a different "goal" to me. And I understand that this is perhaps just my nostalgia or my "insecurity," lol, but adding more levels just feels like adulterating that beautiful 200 with a different quest. So post-200 perks absolutely make sense, I'm just not sure it should be with 201+ levels.

/prestige command seems the most viable thing atm if players are against having their rank displayed openly and having +s on their level

Typing it would bring up:
Prestige Rank:
Exp to next rank:
(Bonus to %: (in brackets because still a contested idea))

Maybe keep prestige locked at 200 until typing something like /prestigestart ?
This way nobody would be automatically placed into something they may not want to be in.
By LV200 they'll probably know what Prestige Rank is, so they'll be in a position to decide for themselves.

I'll be honest, I don't want to be level 201 either, lol.
I'm ok with the tab-rank thing, especially if something like /prestigestart is in place.
Some people don't like running C-Mode and Battle Mode just to not have a rank in something they don't play. "Aesthetical" as it may be, this is just how some players are.

 

[Manaphy]

(Replied on post this page, but replying to page 5 mention)

What I meant is a reason other than stats as a bonus to a player's other characters for climbing up the extra 50 levels. Because 25% is far too much and would cause any character under 200, once a player gets a level 200, to start collecting dust.

 

[conenubi701]

Damn, this thread blew up in just a few hours. It seems like 25% is too much for a lot of people in the thread but I think if it's scaled properly then it shouldn't be a big issue. Maybe limiting the growth to 15% until the theoretical level 249 and then as a reward for achieving 250 you get a fat 10% jump.

Even Hydro wouldn't be 250 if we implemented this right now, by the way, so I wouldn't be so sure of that. Also you say you had 1500 sum points, but you're not even on the top 20 for experience gained, which is "only" 153,970,177.

For some figures, 250 at the current proposed scale would be 455,500,000 at least.

EDIT: Post above me is actually the curve we thought about.

We'll finally have a return of Hydro's 17 hour PSO streams. Hype!


Also,

Edit: Also, if you want to completely "finish" this game, we're talking a full loadout of S-ranks and fully sphered weapons, which takes THOUSANDS of PDs and several years for the average player to complete. This isn't going to be like Schtserv's "race to the finish" where 99% of the PDs were duped and everyone got there too fast. The over

If you want to get "official" about finishing the game you can go back to the v2 days where Sonic Team and Famitsu held a race to the finish event when the Challenge Mode stages were all released. C1-9 completion, 200 wins, level 200.

 

[Ade]

Well, yeah, but finishing the PvE aspect of this game, for most people, means a lot more than just hitting 200.

 

[Ade]

What I meant is a reason other than stats as a bonus to a player's other characters for climbing up the extra 50 levels. Because 25% is far too much and would cause any character under 200, once a player gets a level 200, to start collecting dust.

By that same logic, why start a new character after hitting even Lv. 200? You have go all the way through N-VH again, and you could hunt rares much faster on your already-existing Lv. 200. Suffice to say that, despite these factors, players still regularly start and level new characters because they love the game. I fully intend to work multiple characters toward Lv. 250 and not as a race, but as a chill experience to know that, despite the fact that I'm playing a Lv. 200+ character, it's for a greater reason.

(My RAcast should be about Lv. 206 to 207 already, so I'm very excited, LoL)

 

[falkenjeff]

Also, 25% is not too much, Jeff. You're talking like this is going to double or triple someone's finds. Basically, a 1/12,000 item becomes 1/9,000, which is still plenty hard. A 1/900 item becomes 1/675, etc. It's not going to start dropping from every other enemy.

It can snowball with other boosts. All of a sudden a broken HBR might cut an uber hunt literally in half (or more!) because of the 25% RDR boost from level 250. That 1/12,000 item might become 1/6,000 or 1/5,000.

You also seem to conveniently forget that this change will increase the amount of time you play each character by AT LEAST three times, so the fear of this somehow making the game stale is unfounded.

No, it will just change the quests people play, and I will spam TTF to 250 instead of hunting dumb shit like Mil Lilies. The only reason I'm not on the exp leaderboard is because I'm actually hunting items (and playing multiple characters, somewhat). I guess I'll stop doing both of those things and just spam dat TTF on RA

and this would mean it would demotivate you to play multiple characters.

Yup. My HUney is probably gonna be for unsealing only now. If the boost is really gonna be 25%, I'm never gonna play her, cuz there's no point grinding such a shitty class so hard.

Or apply it to all characters, but then it starts slowly become overpowered.

If it's overpowered when applied to all characters, then it's overpowered in general. Because most people who do the grind are going to ONLY play that character anyway (if it's character-bound and not account-bound).

That would actually be a good idea though. Apply it to all characters on an account so you don't feel forced to only play one.

Saying that it changes the goal of the game is nonsense as well since you hould decide your own goals in game (and life in general) unless you are have OCD

This is a 14 year old grinding game with lottery-tier rare drops. A lot of people with OCD would be attracted to a game like this. I actually had mild OCD as a kid (like I was getting weird turning doorknobs 3 times to make sure doors "were actually closed" and shit - not just "I have OCD lel" but, as in, I would have actually been diagnosed if I went to a doctor). Thankfully it's gone now... But I'm sure there are other people who play here that probably have that mental illness. You shouldn't just write someone off because of that.

250,000,000 @_@

I feel like the counter-arguments are laden with undertones that this is something that's going to be rewarded to everyone immediately. This is going to take probably at a YEAR per character (or longer) for the average player.

The reason it takes a year or longer is because there is no incentive to actually hit 200, so people stop spamming boring quests like TTF. You could do this in a week with 2x exp if you were dedicated enough.

Also, this will drive prices lower, so even non-Lv. 250's will benefit. Remember when Smartlinks were 5 PDs and V801s were 40 PDs? Part of normal progression on a server is that it becomes easier to gear up as an accumulation of wealth builds. What's beautiful about PSO is there's so much more to hunt (just hunting all of your desired weps with high hit can take a lifetime) that you'll never run out of stuff to do.

This is not a good thing. I don't want Psycho Wand and SJS to drop to the 99-150 PD price range because of some broken boost on the server increasing the number of times they drop.

Why would you ever think this is a good thing?

For some figures, 250 at the current proposed scale would be 455,500,000 at least.

I like this number better, but I still think 25% is too much. Perhaps allow people to unlock the boost on other slots as they progress closer to 455mil, and have it be a smaller boost?

Another thing to consider is that if you're playing past Lv200 for RDR boost to hunt SJS or Psycho Wand or whatever, there's also the very real possibility that you'll just find it before you even hit the RDR boost cap.

25% is not going to make it start raining ubers from the sky.

I already found my Psycho Wand. I'm hunting another one to sell it. 25% RDR on enough players will make more of them drop, and decrease its price. Even if people get lucky and 2 or 3 drop within the same 1-2 month timespan the price substantially drops - and you actually have to hold onto it and not sell it if you want to make a decent buck. This has happened in the past (thanks plat badge). THe price of p-wand dropped by at least ~150 PDs during that time.

Also, instead of trying to turn on each other over how "broken" it is, if you could give us some actual alternative suggestions (such as section ID changes!) then we'd love to hear them. We're implementing this for the players first - not for our own secret agenda.

I did: I suggested 5% RDR boost and "always max luck" (5%) for a total of 10% permanent RDR boost.

And possibly allow people to unlock the boost on other character slots as they get closer to 450 mil (idk lol)

Idk maybe I'm wrong but, after playing the bloated Ultima version, the vanilla-ish Ephinea is so refreshing. This just seems more ultima-ish than ephinea to me imo

^ This is why I think the 25% boost is too much. It doesn't feel like Ephinea. Even if it is somehow "balanced" according to others.

By that same logic, why start a new character after hitting even Lv. 200? You have go all the way through N-VH again, and you could hunt rares much faster on your already-existing Lv. 200. Suffice to say that, despite these factors, players still regularly start and level new characters because they love the game. I fully intend to work multiple characters toward Lv. 250 and not as a race, but as a chill experience to know that, despite the fact that I'm playing a Lv. 200+ character, it's for a greater reason.

(My RAcast should be about Lv. 206 to 207 already, so I'm very excited, LoL)

N-VH takes like a few hours. You can do it in an evening.

And besides HUmar/HUnewearl (which have no ATA shield until 180), it's fairly easy to max key stats on other characters very early (my HUney had ATA and ATP maxed essentially at level 150 - and I'm sure a human like a RAmar could do it even sooner).

This doesn't compare to the level 250 grind at all. My HUney "can efficiently hunt rares" at level 150, which is nothing. But once level 250 becomes a thing? Nope fuck that, not playing HUney anymore.

 

[Matt]

The reason it takes a year or longer is because there is no incentive to actually hit 200, so people stop spamming boring quests like TTF. You could do this in a week with 2x exp if you were dedicated enough.

1. No, it takes most people a month or 2 to hit 200 if they're playing regularly. With 2x EXP and Episode 4 EXP, it's not hard to get to 200. The year figure was for 250, not 200.

2. Stop being so fixated on the 25% RDR thing (this goes for everyone). That wasn't even the point of the post. Rather than screeching about how 25% RDR is so OP, make some suggestions (some have) or just mention how you wouldn't like levels to go over 200. The main question was do you want to see levels go higher for the sake of a more meaty level grind, with some perks alongside it, not "do you think 25% RDR is too OP". You can comment on it fine (i.e. I like the idea but 25% is too OP), but many of you seem to be fixating on that and talking about nothing but that and making no other comments.

Remember the RDR thing was simply an idea of something to be done, not set in stone to actually happen.

The last 2 threads have honestly reminded me of why I nuked the Suggestions forum in the first place.

 

[Mille Marteaux]

well clearly since we can't ask nicely how about i just say shut the fuck up about 25% rdr and give us some fucking examples of what you'd rather see so this thread doesnt get bogged down with more insane bullshit

 

[Ade]

Thanks for the clarification, Matt. I want to see levels go past 200

I think RDR is the best type of reward. The amount can be debated. Raising stats or resistances would not be acceptable, and many of the other "aesthetic" rewards are too novel for serious players. Therefore, I say "Yes" to the increased levels, and I will leave the rewards up to the expertise of our staff.

LKA: I realize the discussion got intense, but nobody was flaming or calling names. I'm actually quite proud of this community compared to Scht.

This was probably already clear .-.

 

[bakedTuna]

I want to see levels go past 200.

Perhaps a banner signifying the attainment of 250. Match that with a reward item that is redeemable in a item shop style exchange. With that in mind, it could mean choosing an item from a list or perhaps spinning a roulette for a high end item (just omit the chance at a bunk prize).

 

[BlitzkriegAJ]

a reward item that is redeemable in a item shop style exchange

Now we're getting somewhere.
I like this, but I also like RDR% idea.

 

[Spicy McNoodle]

I like the idea of giving people incentive to play their lvl 200 characters, but I don't like the idea of increasing the level cap. I think increasing the level cap to 250 will cheapen the achievement of hitting 200, or "Max level", among players that have never done it before. Even if there is no functional difference, the perception of changing lvl 200 from "max level" to a step on the way to "max level" will still exist. I know for me, hitting lvl 200 was a goal I wanted to achieve ever since GameCube because it is the max level, and has been since V2. I think people with that same goal looking to play PSO again will see, "Ephinea has increased the max level to 250" and think "Ewww, I'll look at different servers." Just like when I was looking for servers and saw that Ultima had psycho ravens, I thought, "I want to play PSO like I remember it, not this custom crap". It just looks like a glaringly obvious non-vanilla change.

Most people, due to their experience with RPG type games, associate leveling up with getting stronger. People will assume that increasing the level cap means increasing stats. Even if it's plastered all over the website, there will still be people that will assume lvl 200+ characters are stronger than lvl 200 characters. For example, even with the length of time this game has been around, and all the information about the game out there, I still sometimes find players that think the luck stat boosts rare drop rates. Even though everywhere you look says luck boosts crit chance, not drop rate, people still assume it boosts drop rates just because the name of the stat is luck. I think increasing the level cap has the potential of changing the feel of the server from,"Vanilla, with enhancements" to "Non-vanilla server" for a lot of people.

I think we should separate the post lvl 200 levels from the pre lvl 200 levels via a system similar to HBR. Still have the levels based off of exp, still give the RDR or whatever the boost is decided to be, still have it take 250 million exp or whatever the amount is decided to be. But instead of lvl 201, 202, .... 250, its lvl 200 with achievement level 1,2,3,...50, where the achievement level can be seen at the lobby counter or via some /command similar to HBR. This would still give the exact same incentive to play post 200, but not give the perception of non-vanilla changes to server.

Basically, I like the idea, but I want to differentiate between leveling to 200, and getting exp based boosts after 200.

 

[Ade]

@Spicy McNoodle - This would work. If it's something we could view from the Lobby counter to check progression, that would be awesome. Current achievement level, RDR boost, and amount TNL displayed on this menu would be perfect.

I would still rather have the level over my head, but if that's going to make most people miserable, I can live with this.

 

[anime]

V cool suggestion Hishiron ^ _^

 

[GuardianGirth]

Possibly something where every level gained = 1 automatic point on that month's HBR? So people at 250 would have an automatic...what B-A rank each month? That could be a nice incentive but less universal as a boost.

 

[Ade]

Possibly something where every level gained = 1 automatic point on that month's HBR? So people at 250 would have an automatic...what B-A rank each month? That could be a nice incentive but less universal as a boost.

Well...I would hope it could apply all hunts and not just HBR

 

[falkenjeff]

Rather than screeching about how 25% RDR is so OP, make some suggestions (some have)

well clearly since we can't ask nicely how about i just say shut the fuck up about 25% rdr and give us some fucking examples of what you'd rather see so this thread doesnt get bogged down with more insane bullshit

Less RDR.

If that's not enough incentive for some people to level up to 250, then tough cookies.

I think people with that same goal looking to play PSO again will see, "Ephinea has increased the max level to 250" and think "Ewww, I'll look at different servers." Just like when I was looking for servers and saw that Ultima had psycho ravens, I thought, "I want to play PSO like I remember it, not this custom crap". It just looks like a glaringly obvious non-vanilla change.

This is an issue I also have but forgot to write down.

"Level 250s walking around isn't a big deal, get over it" - Tons of people in this thread. But it IS a big deal for a new person who is level 1 and deciding whether to stay on this server or not. Everyone's not gonna have the same vast knowledge of Ephinea as we do. The reward should be based on total exp, and your "true level" should be viewable using a command, and not by modifying the level cap in game. If even one new person quits over it, even though it's "just aesthetic," then it's still a bad change, ya?

 

[Matt]

If even one new person quits over it, even though it's "just aesthetic," then it's still a bad change, ya?

No.

Because if we were to follow that mantra, we'd have to go back to 1:1 vanilla as I'm sure there have been people who have stopped playing over some of the extras on Ephinea.