Mericarol's online/multiplayer stats in Ultimate mode

Should we fix Mericarol's online/multiplayer stats in Ultimate mode?


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Sodaboy

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I'm not sure how I didn't know about this before, but it appears SEGA has made a mistake with Mericarol's, a mini boss in the Central Control Area, stats in Ultimate mode.

This mistake/bug is only present in the multiplayer version of Mericarol and does not affect the one-person mode version of Mericarol.

It appears SEGA has copied Meriltas' stats for things like ATP, EVP, HP, DFP, ATA, LCK and ESP, directly to Mericarol.

You can confirm this mistake by looking at Mericarol's stats in one-person mode, in comparison, and noticing that the multiplayer version of the monster is incredibly weaker.

I'd love to elevate Mericarol's status back to miniboss in Ultimate mode, as it should be, and buff its stats a bit.

The most glaring problem is Mericarol's ESP value is 20, as opposed to 100, as it is in all other modes.

I'd like to go further and buff the other stats of Mericarol, however.

My proposed changes would be the following (values derived from the averages of Mericus and Merikle's boosts from one person Ultimate to multiplayer Ultimate):

ATP: 2640 (Up from 2147)
EVP: 516 (Down from 552)
HP: 5585 (Up from 3056)
DFP: 870 (Up from 769)
ATA: 330 (Up from 300)
LCK: 55 (Down from 58)
ESP: 100 (Up from 20)

And, just as some more information, here are the stats of the one-person Ultimate mode version of Mericarol:

ATP: 2200 (stronger than multiplayer)
EVP: 449 (lowered evasion as is normal for one-person mode)
HP: 3825 (higher than multiplayer)
DFP: 791 (tougher than multiplayer)
ATA: 275 (lowered accuracy as is normal for one-person mode)
LCK: 50 (lower than multiplayer)
ESP: 100 (correct value for minibosses in all modes)

All of the proposed changes to Mericarol are comparable to the stats of other minibosses in Ultimate mode, including Gibbles and Gi Gue. I'll include their stats now also as data for comparison.

Gibbles multiplayer mode stats:

ATP: 3551
EVP: 636
HP: 7346
DFP: 748
ATA: 335
LCK: 60
ESP: 100


Gi Gue multiplayer mode stats:

ATP: 2615
EVP: 636
HP: 5375
DFP: 961
ATA: 350
LCK: 55
ESP: 100

And finally, for the last of the data, here are the stats of Mericarol's brothers/sisters, Mericus and Merikle, for Ultimate's multiplayer mode.

Mericus multiplayer mode stats:

ATP: 2900
EVP: 580
HP: 6725
DFP: 1012
ATA: 370
LCK: 55
ESP: 100

Merikle multiplayer mode stats:

ATP: 2330
EVP: 958
HP: 4714
DFP: 736
ATA: 295
LCK: 55
ESP: 100

So, as you can see even more clearly from the data, bumping Mericarol's stats would put it more in line with how it actually should be, in comparison to the rest of the minibosses, because, right now, it's stats are a carbon copy of a trash monster Meriltas in CCA. This is a monster you kill quickly that is often in packs. Clearly wrong.

This poll will run until May 6th, 2022.

Again, more numbers and/or TLDR.

Current Mericarol Ultimate mode multiplayer stats (copied from Meriltas by SEGA incorrectly)

ATP: 2147
EVP: 552
HP: 3056
DFP: 769
ATA: 300
LCK: 58
ESP: 20

Proposed Mericarol Ultimate mode multiplayer stats (derived from averages of Merikle and Mericus boosts):

ATP: 2640
EVP: 516
HP: 5585
DFP: 870
ATA: 330
LCK: 55
ESP: 100

The only argument I can see for this is a user stating "OMG, I CAN'T CK MERICAROL MP ULTIMATE ANYMORE WITH MY CRAPPY GEAR!", but it's supposed to be a miniboss... so... yeah.

I suppose another argument would be "BUT THIS WILL CHANGE SOMETHING THAT IS CORE TO THE GAME AS IT WAS BEFORE!" and, yeah, that's true... BUT... We've also already made a lot of changes to this game. Some equipment changes like Clio, adding in PSO2 drop mode, experience sharing, correcting Ruins special find rate, and probably more. It's already not the same game.

The result of this poll will not be the final decision, but WILL influence the decision to change the stats of Mericarol. Staff will, as always, make the final decision.

Alright... I think I've typed enough.

Edit: Removed part about ESP decision being final after some consideration.
 
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I suppose another argument would be "BUT THIS WILL CHANGE SOMETHING THAT IS CORE TO THE GAME AS IT WAS BEFORE!" and, yeah, that's true... BUT... We've also already made a lot of changes to this game. Some equipment changes like Clio, adding in PSO2 drop mode, experience sharing, correcting Ruins special find rate, and probably more. It's already not the same game.
many opt out of using non vanilla weaponry like clio on hunewearl and everything else listed is just QoL and doesn’t directly impact vanilla ruleset game play

a strong no for me
 
I want to vanilla combat mechanics to be preserved as much as possible. I'm one of the people cam mentioned. I am not using Clio, hit Rambling May, and so on.

This change here would not be optional.

Strongly against it. I dislike even the change to 100 ESP.
 
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I agree with the above, I selected no because of that.

You could do it but just have an extra setting when making a game, like:

Game Mode: Ephinea or Vanilla and then any future things you would like to change/fix etc you can do and put them in the Eph category and all the Vanilla die-hards still have vanilla to play in so it's all good that way IMO.
 
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But let me know what you guys think!
I think changing the ESP is a bad idea! This is taking away a valuable and core option on handling one of the three meri series. Obviously I am going to be against changing enemy interactions outside of unique quest experiences (Ender's lost seabed quest for example)

Even if you consider it a bug, it was present in the vanilla game and allowed an additional option that can be used as seen necessary. Although not often used, it is great for conserving FTs or even supporting from a distance to help teammates. It's a really great option when handling a meri trio spawn wherein you can FT trapshoot with an arrest handgun to freeze two of them, then continue the combo to arrest the 3rd mericarol assuming you're lined up. I also know explaining all of this is pointless to someone like you, because you don't seem to care how anything actually effects the gameplay for the players.

You're allowed to change what you want, but the mouthfeel of these changes is disgusting.
 
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good players adapt

I'm curious if this was present on Gamecube, but not enough to check.

It's a no from me just so I don't have to see any more like that last post (really No Hit?) and it isn't a critical Sonic Team error.

:mad:
YOU and 10 others have disliked this post
 
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Definitely and most absolutely not. All this does is nerf un-meta classes and quest interaction concerning the Meri's and add frustration between the gaps of vets and new players alike. This is not at all in league with the before mentioned qol choices, as stated. Changing enemy behaviour or its interactions this way is detrimental to the game and I don't care what Sega originally intended in that aspect.

I'm not entirely against the idea of making a miniboss a miniboss but this is like making the Cyberdemon immune to BFG shotgunning. I'd be down for it being optional, but not as a main aspect of the game. This game isn't "supposed" to be anything knowing how brim full it is with mistakes or bugs that unironicly make the game actually fun.
 
Hello.

We made this change on Schtserv GC almost 2 years ago now. The stats we used are slightly different, here are the results below that we used. First stat is original bugged version, 2nd is what we changed it to, since theres no clear result. It was later revealed that strategy guides actually did have stats that we couldn't find in the game but were a close match to what we ended up on.

(Notes by Hysteria)
ATP: 2147 2610 (As ATP difference between Mericus & Merikle is 20% both offline & on, I kept the offline ratio - 12% more than Merikle)
MST: 0 0 (Matches other Meris)
EVP: 552 622 (Given a 10% widening between on/off for Mericus/Merikle, elected for 65% of Merikle EVP instead of 79%
HP: 3056 5421 (15% > Merikle, due to 9% difference offline but additional 10% drift online)
DFP: 769 907 (17% > Merikle, given minimal online drift)
ATA: 300 295 (Matches Merikle; gives a unique difference to Mericus online)
LCK: 58 58 (No need to change this - little higher than others, all equal offline, but online introduces interesting differences)
ESP: 20 100 (Matches the others)
EXP: 348 552 (This is the only one that sega bothered to fix in later versions [BB])

My question because I dont know the answer:
Was the Mericarol exp fix on Sega US BB? Or did it occur later on Sega JP BB? I know they gave a global 30% exp boost in Ep2 when BB first launched but the Mericarol exp fix that was made is somewhat of an enigma.

I voted Yes on this topic, heres why:
Out of all the stats that would be changed, HP and ESP have the biggest impact. Mericarol having more HP and ESP in single player vs multi player is clearly a bug that needs to be addressed.

One thing that may be a good change if the stat changes do end up happening is adding a bit more of a delay to the spit, so that it doesnt spit immediately. I know Sylverant implemented this change in some instances, being that they fixed their exp as well.

For those who give the TA arguement, that is a very niche and small part of the game, not to mention that it will take longer to kill a Meriltas that has the same stats as a Mericarol, because you have to wait a second for it to pop out of the ground to be targetable. By the time that happens, a bugged stat Mericarol would have already been killed.

At the end of the day, this monster is supposed to be a mini boss, but unfortunately sega screwed up. This issue would have been fixed if the game was still being ran by Sega in all likelyhood.

Obviously I can see that my opinion will be an unpopular one, but I am looking at this from not just a gameplay perspective, but also a developer perspective.
 
I'm not into TA for various reasons but for a game that's uphold by its playerbase I'm thinking that every niche and part of the game has as much right to be there as any other part of the game, and it translates into normal play now too due to how some quests are now also designed with weaker Meri stats in mind (Surge).
 
Like Cameron mentioned, this would be Ephinea's very first non-QoL gameplay change that you can't opt out of. It's clear that it's a bug/mistake on SEGA's part, but I think it's wrong to just fix it because at that point you're sort of assuming that the original developers wanted it that way throughout GC/BB's entire lifespan. There are other bugs/glitches in the game that are very core to gameplay, & changing this sets a very bad precedent where you're starting to fix "issues" that aren't actually real issues at all. We have no way of knowing what the developers wanted either way after the fact, so I think the much safer route is to just leave it alone!

I know you mentioned that the ESP change will go through either way, but I do hope you'll reconsider even this. Removing Arrest as a viable option for Mericarol in multiplayer mode is a very big change that I think at least should have its decision questioned as much as the other stat changes. >_<
 
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