Humar Vs. Hucast: Comparing the beefcakes:

I started a humar this weekend and upon reaching the hard difficulty I joined a party. We had 2 hucasts, an Racast and me. The people I was playing with were very polite, but I could tell by their comments they were perplexed by my choice of class. Most hunters you see in PSO are either a hucast for their multitude of traps and high ATP cap or a Hunwearl for their support techs. The humar is kind of a middle ground between them, but worse than both in most people's opinions. I wanted to do a discussion about why I chose a humar and give a little more insight into the class.

Before I start, please let me say that I am not claiming the humar is better than the Hucast or Hunewearl. All the classes in this game are relatively balanced. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. It comes down to what you want out of the character and your play style. I am simply looking at the Humar from a different perspective and offering some insight into an alternate way to play him.

Comparing the Brutes:

Most players look at the humar and see him as a hucast who traded in 200 ATP and traps for resta. Once you reach the level 140+ range most of the humars I see stop using their resta and rely on mates to heal instead. So, most players view the hucast as the supieor class. Let's take a look at the two of them.

The hucast gets another 342 hp and another 22 def. He also gets a 30% boost to confuse, freeze and paralyze specials but takes a 30% penalty to demons. The humar gets another 9 ata and 96 evade. Additionally, he has better demons do to no penalty and better hell because of the extra 9 ata. However, none of these statistics makes a real difference in the grand scheme of things. The Hucast can take another hit and there are work around for the special attacks on both sides. Likewise the 9 ata isn't that big of a disadvantage.

The two things that make the biggest differences are what normally determine which class you choose. The hucast gets another 243 atp and 20 of each of his traps. The traps are great for stopping a whole room of enemies and if you have anyone with support techs in the party, that ATP difference really gets magnified. The humar gets his 732 MST and level 15 techniques excluding; shifta, deband, grantz and reverser. Generally, by the end of the hard difficulty even if you are maxed out, his weapons will out damage his attack techniques. His jellen and zalure are short range, and by level 140 it takes 3 to 5 restas to fill your hp line. Generally, by that point most humars start using mates to heal in parties because resta is an inconvenience during a fight. So, most players generally go for the hucast over the humar.

If you want to compare the Hunewearl, both other hunters trump her in everything but Mind. It comes down to whether you want her support block or not.

Why consider the Humar:

While the above comparison clearly favor the hucast at level 200, it's a long road getting there. One of the things a lot of players forget is that the humar is a human. This means he gets 250 materia to the hucasts 150. In terms of maxing stats, it doesn't matter much, but the extra 100 mats makes the humar more flexible. If you have 100 pow mats at level 1, then the humar will have higher atp than the hucasts until level 144 and the difference isn't significant until level 170. This is because the hucast won't eat more than 50 to 65 pow mats depending on the units you are using to max his atp. The Humar can always overeat on pow mats and have mind on his final mag.

The main consideration however, comes down to the other dominant attributes. The humar's TP line against the Hucasts traps and extra ATP. Traps are extremely useful, especially on ultimate. However, resta is a nice convince on the lower difficulties and when you are soloing. You can fill your hp line between waves. This means you can be a little more aggressive in your play style and don't have to pipe to town for mates as often. Ryuker also means you don't have to carry telepipes, but this slot is usually filled by fluids.

The Humar's attack techniques are not really practical from the VH difficulty on. However, they are situationally useful. Gifoie can stop a charge, gizonde can stun lock volt opt 1, and rabarta can stun lock and freeze enemies if you spam it. His fioe can also hurt Falz's 3rd form when it puts up the ant physical shield. Otherwise, rafoie is nice to open boxes or exp tag stuff. But these are all situational and inferior to the hucasts traps.

Putting the TP bar to work:

This is the area while I prefer the humar to the hucast. I figure if I am going to play a humar it pays to take advantage of the one major attribute they have over the robots. A lot of players forget the humar has jellen and zalure. At level 15 they are short range, but they are quite effective. Jellen will often make the difference between shrugging a hit and getting knocked down. Zalure is strong enough to bridge the gap between the classes ATP. I know you can build sranks with better levels of the techs, but that means fewer inventory slots, and juggling weapons awkwardly if you want to use them often. If you have casts in your party, then they get to do even more damage. These techs are very helpful against any boss they work on. If you have a better support character in the party, these are less useful. However, not all forces, ramarls and huneys j/z with any frequency. So, it lets me do it myself rather than ask another player.

Resta is nice to have, even if you have another healer in the party. While mates heal faster, resta heals everyone. This means, I can restore some hp to a team mate without having to spend 5000 mesetta to do it. While a humar's resta isn't overly strong, it will give back 400+ hp if you have high mst. This is enough to buy your team mate another hit until they can use a mate or reach the force. Likewise, level 5 anti is a godsend. I can get confuse and stun off of myself instead of burning a sol atomizer. More importantly, I can get then and stun off my team mates conserving those resources for when they are really needed. I have been in a lot of parties on this and other servers where I am the only thing that isn't a cast. When I find myself in that situation, the humar is strong enough to cover the support role for the party.

There are two other little convinces that come with having MST. The first is spirit weapons. These let me pummel something without leaving myself one hit from death. The second is the holy ray. If you have one with the same hit as a hucasts arrest raygun. It will actually have a higher probability of paralyzing an opponent and it has the range of a rifle. Not the biggest deal, but a nice little bonus none the less. Although the 680 mst requirement can be a resource hog at lower levels.

Well, that wraps up the humar in a nutshell. If you are looking to simply deal the most damage, the hucast wins that war. However, the humar's techniques and tp bar open up some interesting options. It really comes down to the role you want to play in a group and your personal preferences. Thanks for reading.

darkrangeresp
 

Neanderthal

Missing link
there's nothing a humar can do better utility-wise, everything you counted can be done by a hucast. "Juggling weapons" should be the easiest part, unless you are a casual and have barely any execution. To quote a friend after I linked your topic

Code:
"Leonardo Doujinshi (⁎O﹏O⁎)՞༘✡": lol............
"Leonardo Doujinshi (⁎O﹏O⁎)՞༘✡": "Each has their strengths and weaknesses."
"Leonardo Doujinshi (⁎O﹏O⁎)՞༘✡": actually HUcast only has strengths so...
"Leonardo Doujinshi (⁎O﹏O⁎)՞༘✡": It really comes down to the role you want to play in a group and your personal preferences.
"Leonardo Doujinshi (⁎O﹏O⁎)՞༘✡": role of a casual vs a professional

just my 2 cents
 

Mr J

Member
To me, picking HUmar is about the challenge more than any real utility. You sacrifice a lot of crowd control (traps, arrest boost) for rather mediocre healing and support. It was always labelled as a "good for beginners" class because it had strong growths early on, which start to peter out by the time you reach Ultimate and level 100+.

As someone who stuck with HUmar all the way to level 200, I admit I do feel a sense of misplaced pride in hanging on to it for so long and being able to solo most ultimate content without dying despite everyone's claim to cast superiority, but in the long run they are typically right. HUcast has far more utility in the late-game.

Also I want to point out that "shrugging a hit" is bad in Ultimate unless it's to the point where it does very little damage to begin with. Getting knocked down is more favorable for quite a while.

However, not all forces, ramarls and huneys j/z with any frequency. So, it lets me do it myself rather than ask another player.
Then they're fools. J/Z 30 with a Glide Divine reaches the entirety of your radar. It's the most effective and helpful way to EXP tag.


Also I laugh at the thought of a "Professional PSO player."
 

CTB

JK hate paused, busy!
HUcast is just better but Leonardo sounds like a nerd. Nobody should be complaining unless you're trying to win a prize or TA or some shit...but it's inevitable you'll run into some elitists at this point.
 

Neanderthal

Missing link
Mr J said:
To me, picking HUmar is about the challenge more than any real utility. You sacrifice a lot of crowd control (traps, arrest boost) for rather mediocre healing and support. It was always labelled as a "good for beginners" class because it had strong growths early on, which start to peter out by the time you reach Ultimate and level 100+.

Why is playing Humar more challenging? It's the easiest class, you barely need to understand any mechanics, because you can heal yourself non-stop.
How about challenging yourself by constantly beating your own/other peoples time? Requires spawn knowledge, ck knowledge, good execution, knowing mechanics etc. That's more like a real challenge.

Mr J said:
Also I laugh at the thought of a "Professional PSO player."

Here's my buddy playing professionally
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku_sboiicy8

falkenjeff said:
My ATP has been maxed since level 155ish. Gizonde lets me kill Vol Opt in seconds. Resta lets me save my trimates except for dire situations (eg: a boss like Dark Falz, where killing him faster prevents a senseless death due to RNG - such as that random lucky chain rabarta, or 6 darvants all hitting you at once).

I would like to emphasize "Resta lets me save my Trimates"

I'm a charge whore. I still make meseta profits every run. I can sell my meseta or use it for charge weapons on my RAmar (who has higher ATA and can use charge more in his combos). If I was a HUcast I'd be broke.

You wouldn't be max atp on a 155 hucast, but you'd have more than a max'ed humar.
I'm even making money on my racast with charge arms and c.vulcs. You still make more than enough meseta to charge, even if you use trimates. You can't get hit by 6x Darvants at once, they generally hit you one by one. Unless you're in phase 2 and frozen. But even then, you can only get hit by 3 at once.

Here's an example:
Code:
https://youtu.be/ku_sboiicy8?t=304

The majority of your time you'll be playing a high level character. The inital phase really doesn't mean anything. Lvl 181 is about halfway to 200 and a hucast surpasses a humar way earlier than that. I'm pretty sure you didn't have the 250 mats when you started on this server anyway, you're probably not even max'ed now, are you?

CTB said:
HUcast is just better but Leonardo sounds like a nerd. Nobody should be complaining unless you're trying to win a prize or TA or some shit...but it's inevitable you'll run into some elitists at this point.

Hey buddy, ade was asking if you still have those 85h c.vulc proof pix?
 

Neanderthal

Missing link
falkenjeff said:
You can get hit by more than 3 at once if you let him spit them all over the map during his first form. Or if you're being a dumbass during the "darvant phase".

I have been walking around with 1000 hp (not my full hp bar), assuming I'd be safe and can save my dimate, and then all of a sudden get one-shotted by darvants for being a dumbass, with no chance to heal myself.


that's not at once, that's grandma-in-nursing-home-playing-poker-reflexes-tier. Any chance you can record that?

the damage buffer doesn't let you get hit immediately unless it's really at the same time. you'd have to do TAS to get hit by 6 at once
 

Mr J

Member
Neanderthal said:
Why is playing Humar more challenging? It's the easiest class, you barely need to understand any mechanics, because you can heal yourself non-stop.
Because the heal isn't instant, you don't have traps to halt enemies or make them kill each other, and you don't have very potent support techs.
Yes you can essentially faceroll your way through N-VH once you learn Resta but HUmar is quite possibly the hardest class to solo ult with. Every other class has safer attack options, or ready access to support of some kind.
Level 15 Jellen/Zalure really is not as effective (but still effective, use it!) as the alternatives.
 

conenubi701

קרטל אל
You kids are funny arguing about which is the better class in a 15 year old game. I've played this game for damn near 15 years, and I've played all the hunter and ranger classes extensively. I've mained HUmar for probably 13 years off and on because it's easily the most fun class for me. HUcast and RAcast are the best damage classes in the game, all the people that can't see that are blind. There are terrible players everywhere, from HUcasts that don't use their traps and play like a J/Z/Resta-less HUmar to HUmars that think theyre a FOnewm Rafoie'ing every Booma in sight.


Neanderthal said:
How about challenging yourself by constantly beating your own/other peoples time? Requires spawn knowledge, ck knowledge, good execution, knowing mechanics etc. That's more like a real challenge.

If you're really looking for a challenge, why just hit Boomas on the head instead of playing against a human player on a level playing field in battle mode? Or why don't you TA Cmode? I remember your buddy RQ'ed on me when he didn't have good execution in bmode. I guess he couldn't handle the challenge, or he just didn't enjoy battle mode, just like other people don't feel the need to TA or even Cmode. Hell, there are some people on this server that don't even touch Normal mode and just play Cmode.
 

Neanderthal

Missing link
conenubi701 said:
You kids are funny arguing about which is the better class in a 15 year old game. I've played this game for damn near 15 years, and I've played all the hunter and ranger classes extensively. I've mained HUmar for probably 13 years off and on because it's easily the most fun class for me. HUcast and RAcast are the best damage classes in the game, all the people that can't see that are blind. There are terrible players everywhere, from HUcasts that don't use their traps and play like a J/Z/Resta-less HUmar to HUmars that think theyre a FOnewm Rafoie'ing every Booma in sight.


Neanderthal said:
How about challenging yourself by constantly beating your own/other peoples time? Requires spawn knowledge, ck knowledge, good execution, knowing mechanics etc. That's more like a real challenge.

If you're really looking for a challenge, why just hit Boomas on the head instead of playing against a human player on a level playing field in battle mode? Or why don't you TA Cmode? I remember your buddy RQ'ed on me when he didn't have good execution in bmode. I guess he couldn't handle the challenge, or he just didn't enjoy battle mode, just like other people don't feel the need to TA or even Cmode. Hell, there are some people on this server that don't even touch Normal mode and just play Cmode.

Iirc you and joey were the only ones slapping boomas in ep1 mu1 ta lol.
Battle mode is awful, the netcode of this game sucks terribly, there's no denying that. Not sure who rq'ed in your games, but looking at your videos you, a 15 year old self-acclaimed battle mode god, did terrible against alukard, a new battle mode player. Not to mention that you had a 100ms ping advantage (florida vs germany?) and how fast he progressed. There's a 3 week time difference between your first uploaded match and your last and he went from being owned miserably to matching you. He probably didn't even play much, since you were the only person playing bm on that server.
There was no overall progression in bm either, it's been the same skillplay since 2008. You know that I played a ton of bm, so don't even deny this.

And yeah, why not ta casual mode. Rng drops and rng spawns(ep1) are certainly the right environment for time attack competition. The main criteria for a good time isn't luck at all. Not to mention all the necessary execution for managing a whole 3 items in your inv, required planning etc. Becuase cmode players are so great, they did so well in normal ta. Oh right, they failed even though they had donation gear lol.

Now stop distracting from the topic, you're going to get it locked. I'd have put this in spoiler tags, but there aren't any

falkenjeff said:
EDIT: and by TAS, do you mean "time attacks"? Like, why are you saying "it's impossible, you're lying... but oh wait, you CAN get hit by 6 at once if you're doing TAS, so I guess it is possible"

And upon doing further math, it only takes 4 darvants to do 1k damage. So I probably got hit by 4 (which is still more than 3)

TAS = Tool Assisted Speedrun. You'd have to set up a modified server for that and build a client. The point of the post is, you'd have to artificially create such a situation, because it's probably a one frame thing. Which means: Practically you can't, hypothetically you can set up a modified client where it is possible, depending on whether you can create a quest, where you can set up the darvant spawns yourself. (Iirc ttf has set darvant spawns, no? Atleast in solo I used to have a pattern, turn left, line up 2 darvants etc. )
 

conenubi701

קרטל אל
Neanderthal said:
Not sure who rq'ed in your games, but looking at your videos you, a 15 year old self-acclaimed battle mode god, did terrible against alukard, a new battle mode player. Not to mention that you had a 100ms ping advantage (florida vs germany?) and how fast he progressed. There's a 3 week time difference between your first uploaded match and your last and he went from being owned miserably to matching you. He probably didn't even play much, since you were the only person playing bm on that server.
There was no overall progression in bm either, it's been the same skillplay since 2008.

You know that I played a ton of bm, so don't even deny this.

You played a ton of bm but you never even got close to Alukard who as you say was new to bmode. Certain players just get it, and he played a bunch of hours worth of pure battle mode with me teaching him all the tricks, he didn't just walk in blindly and all of a sudden got decent. Also, ping isn't that big of an issue with this games netcode in bmode, ive played since the dial up days against jp friends. A couple of losses to a someone in like 50 battles isn't a big deal, if anything it means it was a good battle. You forgot I love teaching and watching players progress in bmode just as i did with Dream and Mai, though you kind of stagnated.

I don't see why the topic would get locked. No one is inuslting anyone.
 

Neanderthal

Missing link
Aleron Ives said:
Dark Falz is the only enemy on that map. Darvants are automatically generated; you can't place them manually.

the tools used to create quests are probably just too limited, because darvant spawns are set( which made me think they were placed manually). don't mind the blacked out areas, im paranoid. I left my hp bar, pb bar and mats bar open so you guys can tell its a different run. take a look at the map, same layout.

http://imgur.com/a/J5m9Z

most casuals don't know any spawns ( aside maybe from ttf), let alone know that darvants are set and under which condition their position differs. #1 out

im the best at paint btw

edit: also 98 pb because im elite
 
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