Episode 2 "Lost" Quest Inputs

Yata

SEGA Script Swashbuckler
This thread exists to consolidate the gripes/complaints/suggestions for Girth's new "Lost" quests. Please try to keep your replies respectful and I guarantee that we will take them seriously. Obviously not all of the community's inputs will take effect in the quests, but we would like to find some common ground. Finally, please back up your suggestions with a sound argument. "Change this because I don't like it" replies will not be considered.
 

Zen

Member
Hello. I can mostly speak about Lost Heart Breaker since it's the one I've been practicing. I actually enjoy this quest a lot as it's challenging and there are plenty of great ideas. While I think some waves aren't properly handable, it is creative and well done.
The first Tower is fine for most of it, although its very last spawn doesn't make any sense because you can't handle it without luck or a 4p team knowing what is exactly about to happen. I tryed Matt's edit and I think it is much more enjoyable. He gathered the spawns that are too spread, he corrected the floors' numbers and he removed ennemies that are in the way. I don't think it lowered the difficulty that much but it surely made it flow better. Some Recoboxes were fine for me just like the ones that trap you when you enter floor 2 : that's surprising at first but handable nonetheless.
The CCA part is not needed. One room to allow players to set pipe and shop in the middle of the quest works but that wasn't challenging nor fun. The puzzles are gratuitous and fighting Gryphon isn't adding much.
Tower 2 is really creative, however some floors just feel wrong. The top floor (square room) is meh. You fight all these Meris, Gibbles, Lilies and Recoboxes in narrow corridors which is frustrating. Another floor that isn't working at all is the maze one with Ill Gills and Recoboxes at the same time. Even if you know the spawns it's actually very random. That could work without the Recons though. The last wave is too hazardous because of the warping Epsilons. Other than that, it seems in order as far as I remember.

Apologies for my bad english.

Edit : There is that floor in Tower 2 where you are trapped by dozens of Recoboxes and it'd work fine if they didn't spawn Recons. As it is right now it's too much rng.
 
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BK201

Member
I've been playing LHB with Zen a lot since it came out.
I think it's a nice quest with a lot of potential, but i think it has many problems.
(To me) Difficulty is nice when you can handle it doing the right choices and knowing what you are doing.
In this quest many things are just tedious and not really "hard". I'll try to make a list of what i liked and what i didn't like. ( i'm not asking to change this just exposing my opinion)

What i didn't like:
- Big group of teleporting epsilons in the end
Too much RNG, maybe a clean strategy to clear those might exist but, to clear it consistently in normal play you have to rely on invincibility triggers (rng based) or just be lucky. Bad idea IMO.
-Ill Gill + Recoboxes maze
Totally doable, but it will just be annoying, no way you can define this room hard over annoying, just plenty of rng, ill gils spawning too much far and recon coming visit at you at random times that you can't dodge properly cause stucked in the maze.
The thing i liked less in the mission for sure.
-Spawns that are supposed to be compact are too much spread all over the place.
I don't mean when the spawns are 1-1-1-1-1 for the room, that's fine ofc.
A good example of this is a 3 del lily+3 ill gill spawn in a tower 1 S shaped room or a 2 gibbles+2 delbitters in a tower 1 room where you have a wall right after the entrance
They just spawn too far from eachother and you can't controll them reliably even if you know spawns. Matt edited this very well you might want to check it.
-Tower 2 900k ill gills spawn
RNG at his most pure state. You might call this "hard" but it's not, really.

Random Things
-CCA
No doors felt strange.
You can just keep menu open to avoid forced warps.
-Tower 2 walls corridor room
You can just keep menu open to avoid forced warps and cheat. Very good spot since mericarol bullets don't go through walls, you have ring, and can stay ranged avoiding megids.
-Tower 1 teleporters room
Monsters just spawn when you kill a wave instead of spawning when you teleport, you can just backtrack and kill them from far behind, i think they should spawn on teleport with a few missing recoboxes (expecially the one in front of mericarol)
-Epsilon in small rooms
There are 3-4 of those iirc, 1 is skippable since you can (i know i wrote this 200 times) just keep menu open to avoid the forced warp.
1-2 of them are perfectly doable if you keep epsilon in the middle of the room, and i think they're totally fine (a bit rude maybe) and i kinda like them.
The only one i think it's not fine it's the one that spawn in a corridor of the Tower 2 first big square room, no way at least 1 people have to sacrifice to kill him without relying on invincibility triggers (in random parties most likely will be the chaos).
-What Server's Staff wants from the quest
Since this quest is meant to be played by everyone, i think you could make tower 2 optional.
I like tower 2 but, as far as i heard, me and zen are the only ones that like it. Not really playable by everyone expecially out of sandbox mode. (Me and Zen only play sandbox mode)

I liked all the remaining part of the quest, something more something less but i think it's a pretty good quest with many big problems.
I played Matt edit too.
I'm not here to talk about ethic of what happened.
I think he corrected many of the problems i was talking about and both the quests flowed much better after his edits but, i also think he removed too much things(according to my personal taste),RIP tower 2.
Since, as Staff member, he wanted both quests to be played by everyone, i can understand many of the changes he did and i think would be just egoistic by my side not agreeing with them (i remark i'm supposing the quest playable by everyone thing)

Sorry for the wall of text and sorry for the eventual bad English.
This is what i think, i hope i didn't forget anything, if i remember more about the quests i will let you know.

Edit1: Another thing is the last room of Tower 1, i think it's too messy.
1 epsilon shooting at you with 100 monsters around when you are into the wall to avoid mericarols. Without the epsilon is much much better.
 
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conenubi701

קרטל אל
Both versions of the quests were rather fun the first time around (cool sjs hunting in lhb). However, I felt the original quests were pretty rough and Matt's version flowed much smoother, felt like an actual quest instead of just another ma4c/pw4 clone. Also, relying on RNG to increase the difficulty in a quest made by someone that claims to know what balancing is (Girth) is pretty funny. I've always loved Episode 2 since it released 14 years ago and it's nice to have new E2 quests for this old ass game. Putting Matt's versions back up as separate quests would be pretty cool for those people that prefer the edited versions.
 

Eos

Thine opinion hath been disregarded.
Blocking off areas using Recoboxes felt like a very cheap way to "increase" difficulty.
Spawns far too spread out.
7264127684 Ill Gill
Epsilon in very narrow corridor.
Spawns unmanageable if you are not a cast.
Delbiters have infinite confuse range.

Among other things. Personally I did not enjoy this quest at all.
 
Lost Chaos Calibur and Heart Breaker have been updated as of a few hours ago.

LCC was edited much less but some spawns have been changed.

1.Extra rooms in seabed upper contain morfos while extra rooms in seabed lower contain deldepths.
2. Removed the LOL recobox spawn.
3. Removed boxes that werent dropping items from a few rooms.
4. Smaller rooms are less cramped.
5. All delbiters now have their average confusion rates and distance except for 1 in particular.
6. Warp locations adjusted slightly.
7. Main teleportal in Lab is now switched (Thanks Soda/Zyn whoever did that afterwards)
Enemy counts are now 224 for upper (8 enemies are optional)
Enemy counts are now 212 (15 of which are optional)

LHB got quite an overall and should be much more manageable now.
1. Added CCA doors to the beginning of each room.
2. Did NOT add instant warps allowing you to go back to the previous floor. This is intentional.
3. Floors now show their correct number. (except floor 10. it appears as AF and couldnt figure what value needed to make it display 10)
4. Tower 1 room 3 now spawns correctly as it should.
5. Almost all epsilons have been returned to their normal speed.
6. Many spawns are less spread out (but not so much where they are just lined up for you to kill)
7. Last spawn in Tower 1 has been reduced. (The fuck was I thinking with all 3 meri's)
8. CCA is now nothing more than an intermediate area. (Boxes and a few enemies) Telepipes are allowed here for restocking before you head up to tower 2. Gal Gryphon has been removed.
9. Spawns in small corridors in tower 2 have been adjusted heavily. No where near as cramped.
10. Hidden instant warps in tower 2 now rotate your character correctly and display floor name.
11. Tower 2 maze room has been redone and now the Ill gills cant pass through walls to skank you.
12. Extra Mericarol Room has been reduced from 15 to 9.
13. Final spawn has been reduced from 5 warping eps to 3.
14. Reward for quest completion was Raised to 250k For Ultimate/150k for VH/80k for H and 25k for Normal
Enemy counts for tower 1 are now 190 (4 of which are optional)
Enemy counts for CCA are 5 optional enemies
Enemy counts for tower 2 are now 242 (21 of which are optional)

LHB is still probably the hardest quest on the server but it has great enemy counts and should be much more accessible to all players. If anything isn't working correctly, feel free to post it here and i'll address it further.

I am working on single player versions of all 5 quests and will hopefully have them finished by next weekend. Hope ya'll enjoy.
 

Sodaboy

Administrator
Staff member
Lol, I didn't even look at your rewards for those quests. That's too much meseta to be rewarded and I'm changing that right now. Haha, sorry, man. 250k for completion on Ultimate is quite ridiculous. I don't know what you were thinking... No offense. But thanks for all the other stuff!
 

Sodaboy

Administrator
Staff member
Oh, you got me. I really believed that... (Went into qedit like lightning.)

Haha!

I'm gunna get you back some day.
 
Its your server so make it whatever you think is appropriate to the economy. Hard to measure how valuable meseta is in comparison to community size.
 

Sodaboy

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I didn't change the quests you sent me, besides fixing the warp, but the meseta values DO seem a little low.

LCC is 4000/6000/8000/10000
LHB is 6000/8000/10000/12000

I think they should at least be doubled or even tripled. But nothing past that.
 
Weird. I swear we added in higher values. That was the last thing I did so maybe I sent you the one right before I made that change. Either way, I think LHB would sit pretty around 70k and LCC around 40k on ultimate.
 

Sodaboy

Administrator
Staff member
Thank God I didn't get the one with the Meseta changes. :p That'd have been a nightmare.

Anyway, I set the rewards as follows:

Lost DEVIL'S SCEPTER (edited this one now too): 12000/16000/20000/24000
Lost CHAOS CALIBUR: 12000/18000/24000/30000
Lost HEART BREAKER: 18000/24000/30000/36000

There aren't many quests that even approach past 30k for completion, even on Ultimate. So this is fine.

Thanks again for the updates!
 
Looks fine to me. I'll admit i've always been used to an economy that had basically infinite money so its hard to go back a bit. Anyways, hope ya'll enjoy them more so. Hope to have crater done in a few days!
 

Sodaboy

Administrator
Staff member
Zen is correct. When I did the meseta boost for the quests, somehow I got the wrong LHB.

Apologies to Girth and everyone who expected the new LHB. I recopied everything just to be sure I got all the new stuff (I have like 4 or 5 folders for this set of quests due to many revisions and got myself lost in my downloads/edits folder.)

I've moved all the old versions out of the folder so I didn't get confused anymore.

I just reloaded the quests on the ship and now the appropriate versions are up.

Again, really sorry for that, wasn't trying to pull anything over on anyone.
 
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