A new way to play PSO! "Ironman" mode.

Discussion in 'General' started by Tiktaks, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Tiktaks

    Tiktaks Member

    Hello everyone! For those who don't know me, I go by the name Tak and I have been playing Phantasy Star Online since the Dreamcast. I feel like I have done it all multiple times over and I am looking for new ways to play the game.

    Some of the other games I play have a special type of mode that puts limitations in what you can do, in order to obtain a different playstyle, added challenge, and a greater sense of accomplishment.

    Runescape has Ironman mode, Path of Exile has Solo Self Found mode, and Maplestory has the Reboot server. These are just three examples from games I play, but in every case it has added a great deal of fun and added brand new thriving communities to each respective game.

    I have talked with Matt about hopefully making this an official mode on Ephinea, but sadly that will have to wait. Until then, I will be posted a modified version for those who wish to join me in a new PSO experience. I will personally be starting fresh and playing this way for the foreseeable future.

    ____

    Ironman Ruleset:

    Limitations:

    - Must have "IM" in their name. Example: [IM]Tak (This is only because this isn't an official account type at this time, so it is how you can show others that you are playing under this ruleset)
    - Must have Purist Mode enabled (Type /purist to enable this)
    - Must make all your games, even if public, unless someone else who has purist mode enabled makes the game (Please view https://i.imgur.com/9n7UT5l.png for an explanation of why this rule exists)
    - Can't trade in any way. This includes picking up items that others have dropped.
    - Not allowed to use any items from non-self found characters
    - Not allowed to use the shared stash
    - Can not use the gambling NPC "Coren". I feel it hurts the nature of the challenge.

    Allowed:

    - You can play multiplayer with anyone (But you must make your own games as I said earlier)
    - You can still change your section ID once every 90 days like a normal character
    - Challenge mode items (S-Ranks) are allowed to be used, but the challenge mode must be completed with other Ironman players.
    - If an event if going on, you can participate, but not trade for any eggs/tokens/presents etc. Everything must still be self found

    Lobby:

    -We are currently located in Lobby 7!

    Discord:

    Join the Discord server!

    https://discord.gg/XJa7ySJ

    _____

    The idea of this mode is to have to hunt everything yourself. This would bring a huge sense of accomplishment for those who would be interested in doing so. If this was adopted to become an officially supported account type you would have your own special color name (Similar to red = hardcore) so people would know you are a Self-Found/Ironman style character.

    There are some things I would change if it was an official supported account type, like drop rate, forced purist mode, forcing the inability of not trading etc, but until then this is what I have come up with.

    Just as a disclaimer, I can not and will not be able to hold anyone to the ruleset. This is truly just for fun, so if you want to cheat feel free to.

    _____

    If you are going to try this out, leave a message in this thread. Connect with others and have a great time in your hunts.

    If you have any feedback that could help improve this account/game type, feel free to post that as well as I am not perfect and I am willing to make changes if they fit with the theme of this mode.

    Thanks for reading and your time and have a great day :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
  2. Eistee

    Eistee Resident of Colony 9

    Location:
    Bionis
    Sounds interesting!

    What's the reason for not allowing S-Rank weapons?
     
  3. Tiktaks

    Tiktaks Member

    Sorry for late reply, I passed out.

    The reason for not allowing S-Rank weapons is hurts the vision of the mode in my, and others, opinion.

    While S-Ranks will take a lot of work to even make them super viable, because you have to have a lot of PDs and proper units to even fully utilize them, the problem is once they get going you don't need to ever replace them.

    The idea of this mode is always want to hunt more. Every little drop should excite you because you have to find everything yourself. If everyone, in theory, just got S-Ranks, the ending point would be the same, but having to find everything yourself and having different journeys because of different section IDs and progression paths... That would make everyone drastically different from one another.

    I just don't think challenge mode items fit that mold.

    I will state again though, I am open to feedback and listening to others counterpoints. Nothing is fully set in stone.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  4. Eistee

    Eistee Resident of Colony 9

    Location:
    Bionis
    Thanks for the reply! I have a big counterpoint, though:

    You cannot ever add %s to S-Ranks and there are tons of weapons in the game that an S-Rank weapon can never replace simply due to not being able to have Hit%, so they should, IMO, be allowed. They fill a great and fun niche.

    You are really gimping yourself (and your team) in no-fun ways in Ep2 without them since Hell is so good in certain areas there.

    But since it's supposed to be more challenging, maybe that's good? Hmm.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  5. Tiktaks

    Tiktaks Member

    The amount of PDs it would take to even add hell is the thing that is interesting the most to me. It is indeed meant to be more challenging, but the need of all those PDs, getting the weapons themselves, as well as the units... It isn't very easy when self finding everything.

    I will openly admit the case on Section IDs and Challenge mode items have drove me the most mad in going back in forth on, which is why I am still looking for more feedback x.x
     
  6. Eistee

    Eistee Resident of Colony 9

    Location:
    Bionis
    Ah, you're right - without trading it will take forever to save up PDs for an S-Rank weapon.

    Then again... what else could you sink PDs into except for Paganini? AddSlots are only 1 PD and a Sphere is 99, so S-Ranks would fill the gap.

    What do you mean with "the case on Section IDs"?
     
  7. Tiktaks

    Tiktaks Member

    The case on section IDs I meant on allowing to change your section ID every 90 days still.

    I know some people prefer being able to change section ID, I also know that some people would prefer having to force people into making alts if they want that section ID, or at least playing in multiplayer.

    The problem is that this mode isn't an officially supported account type yet though, so with how /purist works, if someone who is a non-purist made a game with the section ID you want, you would have the increased drop bonuses for example.

    The only way I could lock people to their section ID is if it was an officially supported account type, thus you could just play with others more consistently and have other section IDs to work with.

    I think for now, I will keep it so you are able to swap every 90 days.

    ___

    As for the PDs and what to do with them, I feel it would just be that long con reward of getting a PS eventually. I know it isn't much, but that was my mindset on it. I truly don't know what to do on the case of S-Ranks :(

    I truly appreciate all the responses you have given, as it really does help.
     
    XiCwoodXi likes this.
  8. Roo

    Roo Member

    Guildcard:
    42000053
    Guildcard 2:
    42000815
    For me personally, the game is just beginning when I start making s-rank weapons with specials. I've come a long way with a lot of my gear in normal mode and I don't consider myself anywhere near done (even with practically all the s ranks I could ever want). I'm willing to give this a go. I can't say how often I'll play, since it's very hard for me to play this game sometimes. If we could get a few more members on board for this, I'd be even more interested in grinding this out. The idea of everyone being at the same level and starting a new journey is something that makes PSO really exciting for me. If there's enough interest, we could probably even get a discord server going for it.
     
    Yuffie, Ryan, XiCwoodXi and 2 others like this.
  9. Harborer of Hope

    Harborer of Hope That Others May Live! Staff Member

    Location:
    Tropical! <3
    ROOooooiies~! =3
     
    Roo likes this.
  10. Ryan

    Ryan Fastest Typist Alive Staff Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    Guildcard:
    42000154
    Guildcard 2:
    42000758
    I've already talked to Tak about this. I disagree with restricting S-Rank usage, since they're as "self-found" as anything else. Perhaps it could be a rule that you can only play Challenge Mode with other SFP players, as it does seem a little unfair to get an S-Rank with the help of people who aren't participating in the mode.

    I also disagree with allowing the use of shared bank and section ID changing. Shared bank definitely defeats the purpose of self-found items, since you can use items found on a different character to buff them (e.g. giving a V502 found on a level 150 SFP character to a level 80 SFP character). In my opinion, this is no different from the gear boosting done in normal mode, which makes "starting from scratch" not really starting from scratch at all. Section ID changing isn't really 'purist' at all in a strict sense, and since you can play in games made by other purist players, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

    Other than that, though, cool ruleset! I'm definitely interested in playing it and grinding it out, similar to Roo. :D
     
    phantasystarved likes this.
  11. Tiktaks

    Tiktaks Member

    So I can agree on the S-Rank usage being restricted to being done with other SFP players. This would add an additional layer and still wouldn't just outright remove the choice of using S-Ranks. I will update that in the original post.

    The use of Shared Bank and Section ID changing is intended. This is not meant to be the same as "phantasy__starved" of twitch. For those who don't know, he runs a completion challenge in which you have to purely work with what you got on a single section ID and try and hunt every item from said section ID.

    This is meant to be more like Reboot Maplestory and Self-Found mode in Path of Exile. Those servers/modes are more about having the adding challenge of needing to find everything yourself / being unable to trade. It is about the long con of being able to see just how much you can find and build up your account. It isn't just about the challenge it adds to the game, but specifically the item hunt.

    I am willing to discuss the topic of shared bank and section ID changing more though. Curious what others have to say.
     
  12. BubblegumCrisis

    BubblegumCrisis Member

    Location:
    England
    Hey, sounds like fun I'll join whenever you start playing
     
  13. Ryan

    Ryan Fastest Typist Alive Staff Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    Guildcard:
    42000154
    Guildcard 2:
    42000758
    My vision's different from @phantasystarved's ID challenge as well, since like I said, it's possible to join other SFP players' games with different IDs available to hunt on.
     
  14. Tiktaks

    Tiktaks Member

    My CURRENT thoughts on this (subject to change) is that removing both shared stash and section ID changes seems bad for the overall item hunt goal of this mode.


    So I can understand removing one of them, but not both. One character that can swap Section IDs every 90 days (thats a long time) and can truly build up a super character over MANY months/years of playing the character.

    Or just one account type, which you can't change section IDs, but can make many alts and play a shit ton because leveling would take awhile with purist rates, but you could end up using the shared bank to swap gear you find on those said alts.

    I would love others opinions on this, as I truly want as much feedback as possible to improve this game made the best I can.
     
  15. Matt

    Matt Administrator Staff Member

    Location:
    Wigan, England
    Guildcard:
    42000044
    Personally I'd say that anything goes really, rather than trying to "balance" it, as long as what you get is what you find only.

    I do agree with no shared bank though, SIDs could go either way as SIDs are designed specifically to encourage trading, and a solo self found mode kind of goes against that.
     
  16. Tiktaks

    Tiktaks Member

    I can agree with that point of view. Section IDs are for sure designed to encourage trading, so while this mode would remove that ability, being able to switch section IDs every 90 days, which isn't very often gives potential to continue growth on a character.

    Removing use of shared bank, but keeping Section ID swapping every 90 days could be interesting and something pretty unique for Ephinea.

    What do others think?
     
    XiCwoodXi likes this.
  17. Aleron Ives

    Aleron Ives Member

    Location:
    California
    IMHO you should allow trading between your characters but forbid Section ID changes. If you can change your ID, you have no need to make more than one character, which greatly reduces the time required to hunt the items you want. As long as you have to raise a new character to access a new ID, the items are still self found with the regular amount of time required per character.

    What you shouldn't allow is the use of the shared bank to share a specific item between characters, e.g. if you find V101, you cannot use the shared bank to let all of your characters have that V101. You can trade it once to a character that can't find V101, but you can't move it back and forth between characters: the V101 now belongs to that character and that character only. You must find one V101 per character if you want to use V101 on all of your characters. Having only one set of Hunter gear and using the shared bank to share every item between multiple Hunters defeats the purpose of self found mode.
     
    Detourist and Ryan like this.
  18. Tiktaks

    Tiktaks Member

    So I understand the argument for keeping shared bank, but removing section ID changing, in order to promote making more than one character.

    As for the second part, I want to keep the rules simple enough that if it was ever adopted into an official mode, it wouldn't be too difficult to put into the game.

    ___

    For those who have already posted, are just reading this for the first time, and even if you aren't interested in the game mode. Do me a favor. Read the posts in this thread to understand both sides and the entire point of this style of play and let me know what you think.

    Edit: THERE IS NOW A POLL TO VOTE ON AT THE TOP! Please help improve the game mode :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
    XiCwoodXi likes this.
  19. brionac

    brionac Alolan Fox

    This sounds like we're planning on remaking a nostalgic experience again that we can call either Nostalgic, Vanilla, Gamecube, or Classic mode. I guess we can label it this way to keep it shorter than Self Found Purist mode.
     
  20. Ryan

    Ryan Fastest Typist Alive Staff Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    Guildcard:
    42000154
    Guildcard 2:
    42000758
    "Ironman" is a shortened form that's somewhat standard across other games.
     

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