Why so much hype about mechguns?

Miku

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My favorite classes are RAcast and FOmarl and I've found I like using a hs, or preferably a hs set on the RAcast and Rambling May or preferably a Rambling May set on the FOmarl. I find that these seem to just outclass mechguns and even though I recently got a 60h M&A 60 Vise, I haven't even really been using it. I've also been using a FOnewearl some but even on her I either like to use spells or weapons that can freeze, paralyze, Demon's, or Hell and still don't really do regular attacks for damage anyways. Maybe the mechguns are just really good on all the other classes I'm not using, but are they even really that good on any of these? I'm sort of thinking I should just sell all my valuable mechguns and focus on the stuff the characters I like are good with instead. But before doing that, I wanted to hear if there's a reason why mechguns are so good that I'm just not quite getting or something. Maybe someone could clue me in.
 

Redria84

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hello~ as far as i remember people use mechguns for bosses or other high HP mobs to chase em down quickly.
mechguns with high hit % and charge special are very usefull if you want to kill mobs/bosses fast.
i remember chasing falz down with no time with em :3
so its mostly about the speed they give you to lay mobs down faster~
 

Spuz

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9 hits on a single enemy with the ability to be sacrificial (x3.32) is a lot of possible DPS, which as mentioned is good for larger mobs / certain bosses. There are many situations where CVs are useful and overpowered. PSO is a game full of situational weapon niches so you eventually end up using a lot of weapons for many different purposes but Sacrificial mechguns are a staple in every non-FOnewearl class. FOmarl might struggle to use CVs also but RAcast most definitely can benefit from using a pair, he is very strong.

Also, you can acquire a 50h CV for 1 PD while other gear such as HS/RM to actually become useful require hunting hit and sphereing which is time/effort and cost. In many situations, all of these weapons will outperform each other, depending on the enemy and situation.

Also you have to consider ATP bases:

This is one of the reasons the lower ATP FO's do not do well with mechguns, because the base ATP of the mechgun (before sacrificial) is low compared to other weapons (such as rambling may that you mentioned). This is also one reason you may feel they are not great on RAcast regardless of him being an OP class, if you do not have lots of materials, are on a low level character, lack armour/unit gear, if you do not have Shifta/Zalure, mechguns can be really awful, but when you have all those things boosting your ATP, the sacrificial multiplier really shines.
 
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Matt

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A mechgun throws your ATP at an enemy 9 times; the damage is not split amongst the hits. It's important to remember that most of your ATP does not come from the weapon at all, which is a common mistake of newer players. Vulcans having something like 30 ATP, but Heaven Striker having 600 ATP may make you think that the Heaven Striker is obviously stronger, but this is only if you don't factor in your own ATP.

A simple example is that 1,350 ATP shot at an enemy 9 times is better than shooting 2,000 ATP at an enemy 3 times. Of course, depending on your own ATP, you might not have enough to make mechguns viable against certain enemies.

Of course the game isn't as simple as that, but it should illustrate clearly how mechguns are very powerful weapons.
 

Kevdo

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With all that being said, I wouldn't worry about what's the most optimal thing. Just play with the weapons you enjoy playing with! Doesn't really matter if you're playing as efficiently as humanly possible.
 

Miku

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Well I did some testing. Here's approximately what I came up with.
100% HS:
normal ~400 damage
heavy ~700 damage
extra ~1400 damage

M&A 60 Vise:
normal ~490 damage
heavy ~800 damage
extra ~1590 damage

Note: values are ignoring critical hits but I think all of those are just x1.5 so they can be ignored.

So yes, actually the mechguns do a little more damage, but with lower attack speed, range, and target acquisition I don't feel they are as good overall as maxed out HS. Although I tested it solo so it was without shifta so with level 30 or better shifta I can see that the mechguns would deal quite a bit more dps honestly. I guess I'll keep them and use them instead when they're in range since most of my playtime at level 200 is with having level 30 shifta.

Now I also tested my FOmarl with May and came up with it does about the same damage as the M&A 60 Vise with normal and heavy attacks, but the Vise could still outdamage it since it can use extra attacks. So yeah, I guess my Vise is pretty good but I still don't really feel like it's all it's hyped up to be with how much I see everyone talking about them all the time. My May also has 0% other than hit that I was using so a set could probably just be overall better than the sacrificial vulcans as even its heavy attack would likely just do huge damage. But I guess against low enough defense of targets or when you do a pb chain the mechguns would still do a lot more dps so they'd still be worth having anyways.
 

No Hit

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So yes, actually the mechguns do a little more damage, but with lower attack speed, range, and target acquisition I don't feel they are as good overall as maxed out HS.
Next time you test, try out using this website: https://psostats.com/combo-calculator

If we compare the combo NHS between Heaven Striker (100%) and Vise (0%) we can see that the Vise does a significant amount of damage over a Heaven Striker when it comes to a full combo.

1655715531746.png

1655715515173.png

The enemies aren't relevant, but it's strictly to compare damage output at 0 shifta in OPM on a RAcast.

Each weapon has its own use. One does not simply replace the other. It's important to have both.
 

RazakelKairo

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They're strong, but they're very much a commitment weapon. The pros are that they're extremely strong and consistent, the cons are that they are still DMC prone and leave you on a lot of endlag (a deadly combination that downed a lot of unaware hunters). Luckily, any situation where they aren't best is usually fixed by another weapon, and in moments where you can safely use it, you'll be happy you got those because its certainly an unreplaceable weapon in that regard.

Thinking about it, I myself don't really use mechs much either (and I have a 70h one) but its mostly because I figured when's the right time to use them, and when that moment arrives, they wreck whatever I wanted to wreck.
 

SirLagsAlot

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Dont forget hell/demons mechs s ranks which can proc many special hit chances in a few seconds and 1-tap most of the game as well as being usable by both foney and fonewm since they both possess the required ATA.
As far as FOs go, you really dont have much time besides buffing/debuffing anyway so by that time maybe you wil have time to shoot off a couple rounds and then back to the mage support grind lol. Having those rounds be 9 shots of unreduced demons/hell is amazing tho
Also dont forget Sacrificial Type/MEmes, they are the hardest hittest mechgun with raw damage in the game once Photon Sphered
 
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Paradroid

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A mechgun throws your ATP at an enemy 9 times; the damage is not split amongst the hits. It's important to remember that most of your ATP does not come from the weapon at all, which is a common mistake of newer players. Vulcans having something like 30 ATP, but Heaven Striker having 600 ATP may make you think that the Heaven Striker is obviously stronger, but this is only if you don't factor in your own ATP.

A simple example is that 1,350 ATP shot at an enemy 9 times is better than shooting 2,000 ATP at an enemy 3 times. Of course, depending on your own ATP, you might not have enough to make mechguns viable against certain enemies.

Of course the game isn't as simple as that, but it should illustrate clearly how mechguns are very powerful weapons.
What if the HS was sphered? That would make it more comparable, no?

SirLagsAlot said:
Sacrificial Type/MEmes, they are the hardest hittest mechgun with raw damage in the game once Photon Sphered
If my understanding of spheres is correct then you really shouldn't be sphering Type/ME's.
Weapons like HS/CR/Excal etc are worth sphering because you're getting ~600+100% (or w/e), but Type/ME only has 40atp, so you're getting 40+100% (which isn't worth the tiny dps bonus you'll get, especially considering the cost).
 
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SirLagsAlot

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What if the HS was sphered? That would make it more comparable, no?


If my understanding of spheres is correct then you really shouldn't be sphering Type/ME's.
Weapons like HS/CR/Excal etc are worth sphering because you're getting ~600+100% (or w/e), but Type/ME only has 40atp, so you're getting 40+100% (which isn't worth the tiny bonus you'll get, especially considering the cost).
It ends up being a huge bonus due to its high grind stat and multiplication from the saccrificial special. Try it out in SB sometime. Its much stronker than both GM and MM and of course c vulcs
 
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Spuz

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What if the HS was sphered? That would make it more comparable, no?

If my understanding of spheres is correct then you really shouldn't be sphering Type/ME's.
Weapons like HS/CR/Excal etc are worth sphering because you're getting 100% of ~600 (or w/e), but Type/ME only has 40atp, so you're getting 100% of 40 (lol).

Me/mechguns have 10 ATP and 30 Grind which is 70 ATP at 100% FYI.

I wouldn't recommend sphereing them before other stuff (things you mentioned along with baranz etc) but it's defo something I think could make a difference somewhere on some RAnger, I personally want to sphere a set after I am done with other things. I will be consulting PSOstats calc before doing so, however.
 

SirLagsAlot

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Me/mechguns have 10 ATP and 30 Grind which is 70 ATP at 100% FYI.

I wouldn't recommend sphereing them before other stuff (things you mentioned along with baranz etc) but it's defo something I think could make a difference somewhere on some RAnger, I personally want to sphere a set after I am done with other things. I will be consulting PSOstats calc before doing so, however.
Disregarding excal (because we are talking about long ranged weapons). I would say arguably you could sphere a meme before a hs simply because it can be used by all classes instead of just RA. I believe meme still hits for more damage overall than hs but you are trading off the autoaim and getting the cooldown animation in exchange.
 

Paradroid

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Me/mechguns have 10 ATP and 30 Grind which is 70 ATP at 100% FYI.
Which is still less than LS, but you don't see people rushing to sphere that.

Not sure how spheres effect the special though. So maybe that makes it worthwhile with sacrificials. idk.
I was always under the impression it wasn't worth the price for sphering low-atp weps, but my thinking might be outdated, since it goes back to to the days of schthack.
 
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Spuz

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Well, people have sphered LS, myself being one of those people. But you are right somewhat, usually, it is not worth sphereing low ATP gear but even a little improvement can be beneficial in many situations on some of these weapons, especially in solo mode. I would not recommend sphereing any low ATP stuff before higher ATP stuff because of less benefit. But at some point, as we all accumulate more wealth I see no issue with sphereing these things. Heck, no hit sphered his 75h zerk raygun set recently. I wasn't saying me/me was op or anything, just that it was 70 ATP, not 40 ATP. I want to sphere a set but as mentioned not before other gear is done.
 

Paradroid

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Well, people have sphered LS, myself being one of those people
Myself too. I'm not saying it isn't worth doing if you're an endgame player, but rather that it's bad advice to state it as if it's something everyone should do. I mean 600+pd's on a Type/ME isn't something to prioritise until you've basically got nothing left to sphere.

Save your pd's and put them into other higher priority stuff first is really all I was saying.
 
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SirLagsAlot

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Myself too. I'm not saying it isn't worth doing if you're an endgame player, but rather that it's bad advice to state it as if it's something everyone should do. I mean 600+pd's on a Type/ME isn't something to prioritise until you've basically got nothing left to sphere.

Save your pd's and put them into other higher priority stuff first is really all I was saying.
Im not trying to give “bad advice”. And to say so is kind of insulting for something as inconsequential as stating an opinion on a video game forum. Im just offering tips that may not be well-known. The topic is about mechguns so i figured id explain about how memes are the best in the game for raw damage. Just because its not widely known or discussed doesnt mean its not useful.

like i said before you could even argue its better to do it on memes instead of hs. The reason being it outputs more damage and its usable by more classes.

Theres also another reasoning, which is that type meme is easily accesible with 40h while a 40h hs is a dream. The time and resources can instead be used building up a weapon that actually does more damage and will clear mobs and bosses faster because of it potentially without dedicating thousands of hours to hunting a rare drop which you may or may not be finding with acceptable levels of hit in said time

Memes do 4809 on an enemy with a NSS combo while in contrast HS does 2800 (on a maxed racast) Also being 9 bullets it can clear multiple enemies in a line. While HS will clear about 1.5 enemies on average (per combo)
 
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RazakelKairo

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Spheres depends on your goals. I sphered my LS over HS because in comparison to RA's I just play HUcl a heck of a lot more and she just scales really well with the extra damage, and compensated with having a hitless but high stat HS in the rare case I wanna pull out my RA's. I wouldn't have done that if I wanted to play RA more. Much the same, my next weapons that I'll sphere are a 75h Calibur, a 35h Excalibur and yes, a Master Raven. Depending on which areas I wanna run more I might even consider sphering Master Raven first for my HUct (which is my second most played), but who knows.

Thus when somebody asks anything about spheres and what they should do with their resources, I usually just ask to figure out what that person really enjoys playing.
 
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Miku

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Well I'd say sphere the really high attack stuff first, such as Excalibur, Heaven Striker, etc., then work your way down. But only use them on a good weapon with a good amount of hit for how rare that weapons is, like 30+ for very rare and powerful excal/hs, 40+ for strong weapons like Rambling May or that sort of thing, and 50+ for easy to get weapons. 60+ for non-rares.

Anyway, that aside, I think I've found why I just don't really like the mechguns on my RAcast or my FOmarl. The thing is, playing with wasd makes it hard to aim accurately. It's so much easier to get aimed well enough with the HS or RM that they just end up being better for me. I also really like the freedom of being able to move quickly again after starting an attack and really use that to my advantage so the faster attacking weapons are just super nice for me.
 
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