Server maintenance concluded for June 25th, 2022 (6/26 サーバメンテナンス終了)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Harborer of Hope

That Others May Live!
Staff member
Gender
Female
This seems to be an unrelated topic to the removal of HC, but what? Is this saying there is no summer/anniversary event anymore? That seems like something that would deserve an announcement since everyone is anticipating it right now.




At the end of the day I’m not a paying player (even though I’d be willing to donate to server costs if the need arises), and I don’t expect a vote. This isn’t RuneScape “we pay we say” bs. This is just common courtesy to people that have spent hundreds of hours dedicated to a character and account playing a specific way that was actively supported. Honestly, if I had a maxed HC character and you’d given me a week warning, I’d have banked my good stuff and offed myself to let the character die naturally. Just a 1 week warning of “we need to remove HC mode, you have 1 week to settle your affairs before we merge into normal mode”.

With the way this was handled, I will never make a classic character. What’s the point? You can role play classic in regular mode by just not using episode 4 items, and finding some friends who want to play that with you. All signs indicate that sometime in the future classic will just be merged back with regular with no warning, so why bother?

You can make changes and add or remove things and run the server however you want, just talk to us about it when you’re going to do something drastic. We’re all adults here. We should be able to have a nice discussion.
Our Summer/Anniv Event is still about 4-5 weeks away. Turns out Summer Solstice is June 21st....but after a little digging, Ephinea's Summer event was always after June/July....Guess that since the Anniversary was so close to 'Summer' it made sense to just bundle them together for the sake of simplicity? Anywho, as far as we can tell, Summer/Anniv Event is NOT on any chopping block! So no worries there? =3

As for all the growing Angst for how the HC situation was "Handled"...OK...Yes, it ~Stung~(Hell, it STILL STINGS) some of our most dedicated ppl, YES, it could've been 'handled better' and Yes, ....it was prolly better to avoid any potential shitstorm opening a public 'discussion' about something that could end up being a Jack Nicholson quote...."You can't break an Omelette without breaking some eggs!". Give it TIME! HC may yet get some needed fine tuning later? Soda-Samas prolly has a LOT on his plate right now and the HC imbalance had thrown the server's flow off course. The change has been Made...For better or worse...we LIVE we LEARN....and if not....WE RIOT!!! X'D! We'll be Fiiiine~!
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
Gender
Male
Guildcard
42000044
Anniversary event is in August and always has been.

The scavenger event which took place in June in previous years was scrapped a while ago. We decided it contributed too much to FOMO and was also hilariously imbalanced.
 

Harborer of Hope

That Others May Live!
Staff member
Gender
Female
Anniversary event is in August and always has been.

The scavenger event which took place in June in previous years was scrapped a while ago. We decided it contributed too much to FOMO and was also hilariously imbalanced.
Well.....there u has it~! <3!
 

redria7

CakeWatch
They had good reasons for removing HC mode. There are no such reasons for removing Classic Mode. You can’t use gimmicks or cheese to bypass the intent of Classic like you could on HC, so they have no reason to remove it.
Again, I’m not arguing whether or not HC deserved the axe. I’m arguing that some lines of discussion/communication need to be established for next time a big change is in the works. Right or wrong, there’s no reason minds can’t change on what is best for the server, and I don’t want to be on the wrong side of things next time just getting the response “well it’s already done so deal with it and move on”.


and Yes, ....it was prolly better to avoid any potential shitstorm opening a public 'discussion' about something
That… is exactly the issue here. The assumption that everyone here would just lose their minds and throw poop at the walls if you open a discussion, and changes just need to be forced through privately.
Reading through this thread, pretty much only the first page was about the change itself. I think the general consensus is that hardcore needed a change, and most people seem to agree. Just… talk to us next time. Let us be involved. We love the game and the server too. We want to see it taken care of properly too.
 

Harborer of Hope

That Others May Live!
Staff member
Gender
Female
Again, I’m not arguing whether or not HC deserved the axe. I’m arguing that some lines of discussion/communication need to be established for next time a big change is in the works. Right or wrong, there’s no reason minds can’t change on what is best for the server, and I don’t want to be on the wrong side of things next time just getting the response “well it’s already done so deal with it and move on”.



That… is exactly the issue here. The assumption that everyone here would just lose their minds and throw poop at the walls if you open a discussion, and changes just need to be forced through privately.
Reading through this thread, pretty much only the first page was about the change itself. I think the general consensus is that hardcore needed a change, and most people seem to agree. Just… talk to us next time. Let us be involved. We love the game and the server too. We want to see it taken care of properly too.
='),','
 

Ade

;3
Again, I’m not arguing whether or not HC deserved the axe. I’m arguing that some lines of discussion/communication need to be established for next time a big change is in the works. Right or wrong, there’s no reason minds can’t change on what is best for the server, and I don’t want to be on the wrong side of things next time just getting the response “well it’s already done so deal with it and move on”.



That… is exactly the issue here. The assumption that everyone here would just lose their minds and throw poop at the walls if you open a discussion, and changes just need to be forced through privately.
Reading through this thread, pretty much only the first page was about the change itself. I think the general consensus is that hardcore needed a change, and most people seem to agree. Just… talk to us next time. Let us be involved. We love the game and the server too. We want to see it taken care of properly too.
Reasons for why this wasn’t discussed ahead of time were already given. Namely, it would have given HC players time to farm their boosted rates more intensely before the cutoff, further diluting the purchasing power of normal players after the merger. Some changes warrant a forewarning- if it can’t be used to gain an unfair advantage- but this change could have been abused.
 

RedKing

Hopeless Creature
Gender
Male
Guildcard
42000468
Guildcard 2
42073641
Why wasn't the solution to this problem just
"Sorry guys, gotta wipe all the scapes but 1 from every HC character and HC bank, and then make scapes HELLA RARE to give them some real value"

Why nuke the whole concept instead of just rebalance the one drop that you thought made it unbalanced?
 

Akusaki

Member
Gender
Male
I'd have been totally happy with HC being changed to mirror normal mode identically (drop rates and all), with even rarer scape dolls, if it was seen as unbalanced. I enjoy the long play, so actually the experience boost wasn't at all what drew me to HC, the thrill of almost losing your character (and the emotional experience of ACTUALLY losing one's character) were what drew me to it. I even ended up learning to do some basic coding to make my own scape doll reader, but its value has been diminished now. I honestly think that a discussion about rebalancing HC mode before taking this step would have been a wiser course of action. Now I have 2 normal accounts... Feels weird.
 

RazakelKairo

Friendly neighbourhood HUcaseal
Gender
Male
Guildcard
42058499
As I am primarily a solo player, if I wanna go with my usual HU style of combat, dying and having to walk back to where I came is the worst punishment, but it isn't punishment enough for me to stop with the playstyle. That just keens me on to becoming a better player with said playstyle so that it won't happen as often. I like it that way, personally atleast.

I have no say in the HC debate, just saying, the punishment argument is more of a choice than an ultimatum in normal mode. I get punished for dying, and certainly have seen some shit in multi games too much alike what NoHit tried to convey as a result of mistakes being made. Others like to play this game differently than I do, and that's fine as well. In the end we just combine and chill out, dying or not, consequences or not. Let PSO be for what it is because we definitely have different values, but at least the game allows us to decide how to play it.
 

Paradroid

Member
Guildcard
414
RedKing said:
Why wasn't the solution to this problem just
"Sorry guys, gotta wipe all the scapes but 1 from every HC character and HC bank, and then make scapes HELLA RARE to give them some real value"

Why nuke the whole concept instead of just rebalance the one drop that you thought made it unbalanced?


Because (as already mentioned), people would just alt-backspace when they die instead. Which can be extremely annoying to the other people in the party, as well as making the whole HC concept redundant.
 
Last edited:

CTB

uwu
Gender
Male
Guildcard
42000446
Hmm, yeah something really off-putting about how this change was handled. No communication, no warnings, no discussion. A simple "if you don't like it, leave" tone. This reminds me of something, hmmm, it's almost like I've seen this kind of thing before... Disappointing to see. I won't let the door hit me on the way out.
You mean how its always been?

Some of ya'll are hopping through logic hoops and ignoring any relevant replies. Fishing for likes?

Lets break this topic down.

"No communication or warnings"
Because there is literally zero reason for there to be once the decision was made and quite a few good reasons not to announce it until the change is done.
What were you going to do if Soda posted a warning? Either you moved on with your life, abused your position of boosted rates for a moment, or just quit.

"No discussion"
Well, this topic is here, still unlocked....and all seven HC players have joined in. The logic is fairly sound for the removal and you literally lose nothing except undeserved drop/EXP boosts. HC did not and could not function as the designers intended. Nothing will change this without substantial work, and some of those changes may not even be possible without fully reversing the engine.

"Hardcore has an independent economy"
Sure, a total lack of one due to lack of players that barely keeps afloat from boosted rates. Now HC players will get a momentary boost of their own after being integrated into the normal accounts. Those boosts just keep on giving!

"Just disable the boosts and scapes"
Just recreate your character on your own then. Make a team based around your own rules of hardcore and invite like-minded individuals. You arguably have something more true to hardcore without boosts.

"Management does things without telling us"
Yes, and they will continue to do so. The fact was not established today, Sodaboy has always had a very candid attitude about these things. Everyone laughs at it until you're on the wrong side of it, I guess. Another reason the server lets you download your data.

"This change is too drastic"
I disagree. A drastic change would be the additional deletion of your HC characters, halving all characters levels from the boosted EXP, or deleting your items by the same logic. Instead, you have to enforce hardcore ruleset on your own now and no longer receive a boosts for giving up inventory space.

And while I haven't been playing much, I don't think I've seen anyone in hardcore have a banner that read "I won't cheat the system with Alt+BS"

"but what about the future if they did this"
I don't understand this logic being applied here. What about the future? Maybe your artery will clog tomorrow and there won't be anymore PSO. If you want to play PSO classic then you should. It isn't like you wasted your time in hardcore with the conversion. Unless you didn't have fun and just wanted to be angry. I won't judge, I see that a lot with PSO.


"(something about events)"
Honestly I got kinda tired of this post a minute ago. I'm going for a perfect Symphony of the Night file and taking a break from the reloads. Lets talk about you. Why aren't you watching The Boys? Ah, well, I recommend it if you wanna have a fun time. Farewell!
 

redria7

CakeWatch
Lets break this topic down.
These don't really break down individually since every piece is pretty interconnected, but since you insist on viewing this through the HC light, let's look at a different approach that could have been used.

I won't dive into the question of how the continued existence of HC mode even harms the server aside from preventing a better HC mode implementation - let's just assume management decides there needs to be a change.

  1. Lock HC mode account creation (and character creation too if that is possible with current tech) to avoid any new cheesers.
  2. Create a community post that hardcore mode needs to change. Describe the problems with it (low population, scape dolls being too freely available, the drop rate boost being too strong for the limitations of the mode, etc). Tell the community you have a plan for resolving the issue to your liking, but are looking for feedback or alternative options. Provide a date that a decision will be made.
  3. When that date arrives, if no alternatives appease management, implement the scorched earth regular mode merge.
This does a few very important things:
  • Prevents new character HC abuse for the duration of the discussions in case someone realizes what might happen and tries to farm. Sure, existing accounts could try to hunt for a week or two before changes go in, but at that point you have people who have been playing for years. An extra week isn't going to break regular mode economy any more than the current change has.
  • Gives people a warning before changes go in place. Any last minute goals or achievements people might have had can be pushed for, people can have some fun last minute rooms, etc.
  • Gives players an opportunity to offer feedback and options in case the collective playerbase can come up with more ideas than the few people running the server. Note that management doesn't have to use these ideas, just give us a chance to speak before doing something irreversible.
  • Leaves ultimate control with management. No polls, no voting - just a quick opportunity for a back and forth without giving up the game on what is about to happen.
So to address your points one by one:

literally zero reason for there to be once the decision was made
There is the very good reason that a player base might have better ideas sometimes than management. If sodaboy sees something and says "hey, that sounds better than what I had planned", then there is a gain for no loss.

Well, this topic is here, still unlocked
After the fact. I don't want to have the discussion afterwards because it is too late to make suggestions or come up with alternatives. I like that the thread isn't locked and everyone is generally friendly enough to talk this out, but this should happen before changes, not after.

Sure, a total lack of one due to lack of players
Regarding economy - this is more pointing out how hardcore as-is did not hurt regular players at all. Sure, the economy sucked, but it was distinct and could have been a discussion point for how to improve HC mode.

"Just disable the boosts and scapes"
Just recreate your character on your own then.
Again, these would have been great things to talk about before hand.

Yes, and they will continue to do so. The fact was not established today, Sodaboy has always had a very candid attitude about these things. Everyone laughs at it until you're on the wrong side of it, I guess.
I don't know why you're arguing in favor of what I'm saying but seem to think you are disagreeing? I don't play HC though, I'm not on the wrong side of it. I'm here arguing because I don't want to *be* on the wrong side of it next time with no agency. I don't need or care to discuss drop rate changes, event changes, skins being added (lol those are stupid), etc - control that part however you want to - but when you remove an entire game mode that has been in place for years without any discussion or warning, it is a red flag.

"but what about the future if they did this"
I don't understand this logic being applied here
I enjoy PSO. What if sodaboy decides he doesn't like that forces exist and removes them from the game? All force characters get converted to hucasts, no discussion. That would suck. I just want someone in management to give us a heads up and an opportunity to talk them down from a cliff if they start eyeballing a bad change.

I don't care about the likes. They affirm for me a bit that I'm not alone in feeling a bit miffed by this, but I mostly want to get through that feedback is an important part of any process. Be the bad guy. Be the dictator. But give us a chance to feel like we contributed to the end result.
 

Paradroid

Member
Guildcard
414
give us a chance to feel like we contributed to the end result.
Why? It's a private server, not a democracy.

Consider this... Were we consulted when HC was added in the first place? Hell no. And I for one was very opposed to it, for the exact same reasons it is finally being removed.

HC was an idea which turned out to be bad, due to scapes, alt-backspacing, economy division and being non-vanilla. And since that's all so blatantly evident by now, there should be no need for a community conversation.
 
Last edited:

cameron-

fka jingle
HC users signed up for HC mode and proceeded to sink thousands of hours into their lives into it, this is what hurts the most I think, the disregard for their time and dedication for a change that no one asked for and which serves nobody. the HC users remaining are in it at this point for the community, the playstyle, and possibly the ironman-ish economy inherent to the mode; the boosts available to HC users were nominal at best, and anyone suggesting that HC users were there for the express gain of the HC boosts is demonstrating that they have no friends in, or insight into the HC community. the people in here suggesting that HC users would powergame for a week if given advance notice for material gain and to gain advantage in the NM economy are really telling on yourselves, and how you would proceed to behave with such information. and finally, I haven't seen an HC user alt bs out of a game or door camp in years.

of note a significant amount of the hc community was russian speaking (and vice versa) and their voices are palpably absent in this thread.
 
Last edited:

Ade

;3
"the people in here suggesting that HC users would powergame for a week if given advance notice for material gain and to gain advantage in the NM economy are really telling on yourselves, and how you would proceed to behave with such information."

-------------------------------------------------

This is really out of line. Looking at a process or procedure and asking "How could this be abused?" Is no indication you would do it yourself, nor that any particular HC person would.
 

Ade

;3
no, i said what i said, it speaks volumes to your character that you are concerned with what someone could gain with +25RDR in a week without any consideration for the emotional harm such an unannounced change could produce
Agree to disagree. You aren't a mind reader, my friend.
 

CTB

uwu
Gender
Male
Guildcard
42000446
I'm not going to pretend I read all that, but I read parts of what cameron said because he did not furnish me with likes.

Rest assured that nobody who takes advantage of that theoretical grace period is a bad person. Trying to attack specific users over that is weak.

Some people could take advantage of the fact and push themselves to play more - I'd probably be in that camp - and the staff wanted to avoid that. Perhaps I have to point out that "moving on with your life" in my post meant you would just keep playing like you normally do in spite of the news.

The "emotional harm" one would avoid by getting a week notice is quite literally nonexistent. As an HC player you are going to be upset the exact same amount - just next week instead of today. Or maybe still today but then you got over it like a normal person next week? Hrm. End result would probably just be one less page in here.

One thing I should point out is that I am armchairing here, I have no idea what goes through the staff's heads. I mean Matt had a cool name and now he's Matt. Yuck.

Anywho, now that I'm aware of the psychoanalysis being done on my posts, I should probably stop posting. Rest assured that I am just a stubborn old man whos opinions are mostly irrelevant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top