S-rank price fixing.

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Ade

Curse Breaker
Note: I'm not sure if this belongs in the "Trade" forum because I'm not actually trading anything, but it is about the server's economy.

Now, these people aren't breaking any rules because this economy doesn't really have regulations. However:

A group of Challenge Mode enthusiasts have banded together and agreed to charge 20 PDs per S-rank instead of the standard 12 that was commonly accepted. This was done as a means to "sway" non-Cmode players into playing more Cmode.

As somewhat of an armchair economist, I assert this is wrong because it basically amounts to a price-fixing cartel. Again, they aren't breaking any rules, but this undermines the trust of the community and the notion of a free market economy.

What can be done to stop this if it's not illegal?

Non-Cmode players? Simply refuse to pay that much. When their sales drop, they'll lower their prices. Basic economics.

Cmode players who haven't signed up for this cartel? This is a great entrepreneurial opportunity for you to get some business while undercutting players who are partaking in abusive and manipulative tactics.

Also, please note I have been charitable and agreed that these people aren't breaking any rules. SIMILARLY, I am not breaking any rules by pointing out what they are doing.

S-ranks aren't worth 20 PDs. If you agree to pay 20 PDs for an S-rank, you're basically paying one PD for every 10 minutes of Cmode*, which is a majorly bloated price. Don't get ripped off.

*This can vary a bit, but a skilled team playing Ep. 2 Cmode can easily make this rate.
 
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Cyb3r_ZER0

Member
I don't really think you can stop this sort of behavior. While I don't exactly agree with 20pds, the community willingly orders S-ranks from the guys who own a monopoly on these things because they lack the ability to do it themselves. They are choosing to pay for their service. The options are either not buying it (no S-rank) or learn it and join them. For some, the first option is the only choice. I can't really blame them for charging more because they are willing to do an optional service to allow access to S-rank weapons to players that otherwise would not have.
 
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anime

Bonsai Trees
Staff member
It was actually done because C-mode players "wanted more PD's", not to bring in new players. That is just happening as a result of the price increase.
I know at least 5 players who are learning C-mode and I think thats a really good thing!
I honestly think that the people who play Challenge Mode should be able to set this price on
S-Ranks together as long as they are helpful and willing to give tips to new players. (which they are! As long as the new players put in effort to learn beforehand through maps and videos)

(Then again I bought a ton of S-ranks already cause Ducks warned me in November that this would happen ;-; )
 
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Zen

Member
12PDs for a custom S-Rank Weapon is underpaying. Roughly 10 "regular" C-Mode players with various time zones; it's not that easy to find a team ready to clear a whole episode and these weapons are like REALLY useful. I wouldn't base the price on the time spent getting it. Price is also based on the weapon itself, its use, the fact that you are not going to wait for 2 months before having your order ready and many other factors.
 
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conenubi701

קרטל אל
If my buddies still played 24/7 id try to flood the market with sranks again. I remember undercutting matt and ndw when people still needed sranks by selling them off for 5-8pds. But thats because i liked doing cmode and didnt feel like touching normal mode. I havent been motivated enough to play PSO that much since I've been busy with other things. Also, I think one of your team mates still needs to pick up a demon needle from me.


That said, @Ade if you don't like the prices then instead of whining about it on the forum learn to play cmode and make the sranks yourself, or band a group of friends together and drive the prices down.


Edit: lmao @ cartel.
 
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Matt

Administrator
Staff member
People felt 10PDs for CM wasn't worth their time, even if they really enjoy CM. Might as well not bother going through new sets if doing that and just play stages as you feel like it (which is what we did for a while).

They're the only suppliers of S-Ranks, so if they feel they'd rather not sell for 10PDs, that's what's going to happen. If you feel they're not worth that much, then you obviously feel the time invested in doing a C-Mode run is worth avoiding that payment, so why don't you get the S-Rank yourself?

And just for the kicker, we've sold quite a few at the new price, so people obviously don't feel it's too much to skip doing Challenge themselves.
 

makaveli

Achiever
15pds should be the new price. I see where people are coming from on both sides of the story. I do not think s-ranks should be 20pds.. but I also think doing a set of cmode stages is worth more than 10pds. It is alot more involved with cmode then most people think haha.
 

Sodaboy

Administrator
Staff member
The people who do Challenge mode and sell their S-Ranks can set whatever price they want for them. There should never be a standard price and the price should be reflective of whatever they feel the amount of time they invested to get the S-Rank is worth.

If people think their prices are too high, they won't buy them and either one of two things will happen:

1) The sellers will lower their prices.
2) The buyers will start playing more Challenge mode.
 

Ade

Curse Breaker
I don't think anyone is trying to FORCE them to change their prices, yet a lot of people seem to be arguing against that point. (Not sure why.) I'm simply saying, "Hey, this is too much and here's why."

It should be noted that the business practices in which this cartel is engaging would be considered "anti-competitive" and illegal in an actual economy (if it were a large scale operation), but that assertion is not being made in this case. I just think they're ripping people off and I refuse to business with them until they become less greedy.

But really, people? Where in my thread did I say, "They must change the price." ???

If you're going to argue, you need to argue against the assertion that is being MADE, not the one that you imagined.

A couple of people did, and one explained that they sold "quite a few" at the new price. However, selling a product at a high price does not mean the buyer finds the price agreeable or fair, and oftentimes individuals who are ill-equipped with economic knowledge will fall to this. This thread seeks to put a stop to abusive business practices by informing others, not by forcing the abusers to do anything.

They can keep charging whatever they want. I'm saying YOU should stop buying them at that price so it forces a natural economic change. (Now that you're aware of this.)
 
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Matt

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah but in this economy you can do something about it, it's not like US Internet Service Providers.

You also call it greed, when it's really a case of us thinking 10PDs isn't worth our time. You don't think they're worth 20, so don't buy them, but people are, so... :)

But really, people? Where in my thread did I say, "They must change the price.' ???
This is essentially what you are saying, though.

"Guys, S-Ranks aren't worth this much so don't buy until they reduce their prices"
In other words, you feel the prices of S-Ranks must change because you don't agree with them and we have to change to reflect that. Your post is basically a roundabout way of saying that while attempting to deflect any sort of accusation.
 

Spuz

Without rain, nothing grows.
God, people raging over 20 pds.

Personally I believe sranks should be way higher, when I found out they were 10 pd's on this server I almost cried. But I was told that 'the cartel' decided to be nice to the community (due to server being new and everyone being low on PD's) by selling them cheaper than what they would have (being ten pds instead of the going rate of 20-30). I mean they are some of the most used and most useful items in-game. Being that specials are unreduced and are better than almost every other weapon , almost every character and player uses one and everyone wants them (within reason). Just the fact the amount of people playing cmode and complaining due to a little change proves their value of worth. Is it really fair to complain for this at 20 pds considering the above? No, I think not. But I saw this coming and wish they were not nice enough to have it low in the 1st place.

You should all be thankful that they were 10 in the first place and that they were not 30+
Note that Challenge Mode is not easy to complete. The only reason this tiny ass group of players know it so well is because they have been playing it day in-day out for over a decade (ish for some).

10 pds is simple not worth the time of playing cmode. Frankly nor is twenty.

If you and a team a people who have never played it want to go attempt all the stages and tell me you'll do it for ten PD's then go ahead. But at the end you won't tell me it was worth your time.

i think sranks should be 70 pds
B> the days when people happily paid over a stack for every Srank and there was a shit ton of more players!!
 

CTB

JK hate paused, busy!
1. get three buddies together
2. farm cmode a bunch
3. charge 17 pds (or 12 pds if you want to be fair...I guess...)

pso economy is uncontrolled capitalism so ummm yeah this happens

(also while i know government is just doing his thang, other people seem to forget that pds don't magically appear here like they did on scht ...i hope)
 

CTB

JK hate paused, busy!
but they will if they want to undercut you

man don't miss the point like that

tbh while im not buying any sranks atm, i know i'd be hardpressed about paying more than 20 when i have to pay another 50+ to get a special
 

Matt

Administrator
Staff member
PDs definitely aren't just appearing out of thin air because people actually hunt AddSlots instead of buying them for PDs.

That's how much people value PDs right now, crazy.
 

Spuz

Without rain, nothing grows.
(also while i know government is just doing his thang, other people seem to forget that pds don't magically appear here like they did on scht ...i hope)

Ofc they don't but everyone is buying and trading lots for all sorts and have stacks. Hell even in HC where there is not a single economomy, where the PD's we find ourselves are the only used ones we get enough to buy stuff in gallons etc. To say 20 pds is alot and is required to magically appear is a joke. Obviously my B> comment is not a serious one. It was referring to people raging from a small boost in pricing.
 

Ade

Curse Breaker
20 PDs is a lot on this server. I'm certain that most of the PDs on Scht were duped after experiencing a true, legit economy. (Kudos to the server admins, btw, for keeping things legit.)

Also, let's not get too hung up on the price itself. Remember this is also the result of price-fixing, which has been a historically douchey activity.

Instead of letting the price set itself naturally through transactions, a small group has decided to not charge below a certain point. This always leads to a price that is higher than the demand. It's up to YOU as a consumer to recognize this so it's stopped.
 
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