Revisit the PD rate increase debate.
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Wil
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PD Rate is fine.
Need PD's? Do Dragon Runs, Do EN4 runs, Do Box Runs. Sell Meseta. Farm items.
You can't just "HUR DUR GIMME MONEY" when you aren't contributing anything to the economy yourself.
People want to trade. People have piles of PD's. It's your responsibility to meet them in the middle if you want to participate in the economy.
Need PD's? Do Dragon Runs, Do EN4 runs, Do Box Runs. Sell Meseta. Farm items.
You can't just "HUR DUR GIMME MONEY" when you aren't contributing anything to the economy yourself.
People want to trade. People have piles of PD's. It's your responsibility to meet them in the middle if you want to participate in the economy.
Ade
;3
If the server ever reached the point where most people were geared up and ready to Sphere, the number of PDs "destroyed" or "removed from the economy" would be so great that the shortage would be apparent. You may think it's fine now, but it won't be forever. A couple of "success stories" does not negate a problem of general economy.
Basically what I'm hearing here is this:
If you've progressed to a point where you don't need PDs for general purchases and you're just wanting to Sphere your gear, you're out of luck. The gear worth sphereing is so rare that you'll never find it, nobody will ever want to trade it to you, and PDs are rare enough that you won't want to settle for sphereing sub-optimal gear. There's NOTHING this game has to offer you post Lv. 200 once you have RELATIVELY high-end (but not perfect) gear. Give up.
The PD rate increase was originally @Matt 's idea. I've suggested possibly adding a new difficulty or looking at reasonable rewards for EXP accrued past Lv. 200. Every attempt to keep the game interesting for veterans other than "playing every day and maybe there's a 0.5% chance you'll find something better than what you have" has been denied or shot down. All I can do every day is hope to find a better hit % Lame (with no AB, M, or D) or a better hit % HS. Many times I log in and maybe solo a run or two. Sometimes finding a good party helps keep it interesting for a few hours, but without a sense of progression, everything is less fun.
I'm sorry to complain. And before you suggest I just make new characters: I don't see the value of leveling anything other than the characters I've already leveled since anything else would be a decrease in power and I have all the Section IDs I need. I started a second RAcast during the first Season, but I only level him during 1.5 EXP weeks since that's a good motivator to play.
I would like to think this isn't just a personal problem. There just aren't many people in my position
I miss being EXCITED to play...
Edit: @Wil and @anime I don't have time to sit in a trading game all day. I know there was talk of some sort of an auction house in the past. Whatever happened with that? Maybe something like that would fix most of the problem. (It would also eliminate the need for a price guide since the prices would be 100% market driven, which is a beautiful thing.) An AH would, however, require that the PD carrying capacity be greatly increased.
I guess I'll just consider this proposal "defeated" again. Perhaps with additional server progression and more people hitting the "wall" that I've hit, some of these ideas will eventually get approved. That "spark" you feel when you want to hop on PSO and see who's online for a game never goes away, but it sure cools off a lot faster now ( ._.
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You've put a lot of time into this game, per your own admission, so I really doubt this.
For you, maybe, but that doesn't apply to everyone else. Like I said earlier in the thread, your talk of "modern gamer tastes" is worrying - this is PSO, not Diablo or any other game, and I firmly believe the vast majority of the community wants it to stay that way. If someone wants to play Diablo, they will play Diablo, not PSO.
That said, I'd love for that auction house idea to pop up again.
Ade
;3
There's a big difference in improving the appearance rate for currency and completely tailoring to "modern gamer tastes," which you keep bringing up, and which I've defended against, over and over.
We could argue that having stackable grinders and materials is more in alignment with "modern gamer tastes," but you arbitrarily put that under the column of "quality of life." And what about EXP sharing?
I think having an economy that functions at least SOMEWHAT like a normal economy (instead of a slow, dying one) is much more "quality of life" than stackable grinders since basically all human activity can be broken down into matters of economy.
In fact, I'm going to ride on with this. I'm not going to let objections from literally four people dissuade me. I've received a number of PMs supporting me. The people sending them don't want a bunch of hate from the vocal minority that opposes all changes, so they stay anonymous.
Well, I have no friends, so I don't care. I stand by this proposal.
We could argue that having stackable grinders and materials is more in alignment with "modern gamer tastes," but you arbitrarily put that under the column of "quality of life." And what about EXP sharing?
I think having an economy that functions at least SOMEWHAT like a normal economy (instead of a slow, dying one) is much more "quality of life" than stackable grinders since basically all human activity can be broken down into matters of economy.
In fact, I'm going to ride on with this. I'm not going to let objections from literally four people dissuade me. I've received a number of PMs supporting me. The people sending them don't want a bunch of hate from the vocal minority that opposes all changes, so they stay anonymous.
Well, I have no friends, so I don't care. I stand by this proposal.
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While I'm sure you mean PSO vs Diablo, I'm going to comment that on this specific subject, 54.8% of players wanted the rate to increase, which is pretty far from the vast majority of players not wanting it.
It was polled publicly.
That being said, since it wasn't 75%, it never went through as I believe a grand majority vote is necessary to push through non-vanilla changes on a "Vanilla+" server when it's posted for the community to decide. This particular policy of mine is pulled from OldSchool RuneScape, a game with similar ideals to Ephinea. (which is obviously no longer vanilla, but pushes through updates that the community has to agree with)
From experience with watching the community, the vast majority of players don't particularly care about remaining Vanilla integrity and just play on Ephinea because it's a high quality server that offers them an experience more in line with what they want. While vanilla will be part of that for some players, there have been many non-vanilla changes pushed through that have been universally praised, or been met with indifference.
The vanilla purists are just a minority*. However, this isn't mean the server is going to be adding custom items or the like, it will still say the same as it always has been.
* That being said, we did poll something similar to this, although it was in 2015, and it was roughly a 50/50 split, so this statement may not be accurate. However, we were voting on going crazy with non-vanilla vs. vanilla with sprinkles.
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"Literally four people" and "45.2% of the playerbase" (the percentage that voted against the PD increase last time) are a pretty big differential. Also, I know that there are some people who are "vanilla purists" and against any changes (see the Episode 2 drop chart revamp), but I don't see a lot of "hate" coming from either them or the people who disagree with a PD increase. Disagreement? Of course. Hate? ...
It's a great policy. Kudos for that. And I didn't mean PSO vs. Diablo specifically; I was referring to PSO staying PSO-like, since Ade brought up Diablo as a comparison in this thread. I'm sure there's an excellent argument for increasing PD rates, but "it's more in-line with modern gamer tastes" isn't one.
GravitySuitCollector
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I don't really want an increase in PD rate. This is coming from a guy who has several s-ranks without specials. It isn't necessary.
lostinthought87
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I see a lot of emphasis on this thread on increasing the PD rate because overall accumulation of PD's will be faster. That benefit seems contentious enough.
What has not been emphasized, though, is the value of increasing the PD rate because of increased liquidity. This was a point that was elaborated on in great detail in the original thread, and I'm sad to see it hasn't gained traction here.
Put simply, if many things in the economy cost half a PD (and they do), then that is a good indication that the baseline rate is not quite calibrated correctly. Reiterating a point made in the previous thread, this is exactly why stock splits happen - because more granularity is needed in the common currency. This has been empirically proven to boost trading using that currency time and time again; it's one of the most basic economic principles that exist. Even if you doubled the PD rate and doubled all fixed PD costs, this would still boost the economy.
There is a reasonable argument against boosting PD rates for the sake of speeding up progression. There really can be no argument against boosting PD rates for the sake of improving the economy, it is pretty much guaranteed to happen.
What has not been emphasized, though, is the value of increasing the PD rate because of increased liquidity. This was a point that was elaborated on in great detail in the original thread, and I'm sad to see it hasn't gained traction here.
Put simply, if many things in the economy cost half a PD (and they do), then that is a good indication that the baseline rate is not quite calibrated correctly. Reiterating a point made in the previous thread, this is exactly why stock splits happen - because more granularity is needed in the common currency. This has been empirically proven to boost trading using that currency time and time again; it's one of the most basic economic principles that exist. Even if you doubled the PD rate and doubled all fixed PD costs, this would still boost the economy.
There is a reasonable argument against boosting PD rates for the sake of speeding up progression. There really can be no argument against boosting PD rates for the sake of improving the economy, it is pretty much guaranteed to happen.
Ade
;3
There was quite a bit on liquidity and insufficient denominators in this very thread awhile earlier, I thought?
Anyway, @lostinthought87 raises an excellent point.
Remember, doubling or increasing the PD rate to 1.5x would only decrease the time needed to fully Sphere multiple sets of gear from “LOL takes so long it’s never been done legitimately in the 16 years the game has existed” to “many years.”
The progression wall that I and many others have slammed into is very, VERY real, and players who have come nowhere near this point feel apt to comment negatively on my concerns.
Let’s turn the tables on the naysayers: Other than being non-vanilla, what BAD things do you feel this change would cause?
If it increases interest in the game, gives veterans something to do, and causes zero (or very close to zero) people to “finish the game too soon,” then what the hell is wrong?
The main argument raised is that it makes the game easier and isn’t necessary. So what if it’s not necessary? Stackable grinders and EXP Share aren’t necessary, either. Regarding “easier:” If NOBODY in the history of PSO was able to finish Sphereing a set of gear legitimately, which I’m willing to bet, and ignorance of dupes doesn’t count, then maybe, just MAYBE Sega made it way too time consuming. Can you at least acknowledge that?! You guys are acting like I’m saying the moon is made of cheese, for Christ’s sake.
Anyway, @lostinthought87 raises an excellent point.
Remember, doubling or increasing the PD rate to 1.5x would only decrease the time needed to fully Sphere multiple sets of gear from “LOL takes so long it’s never been done legitimately in the 16 years the game has existed” to “many years.”
The progression wall that I and many others have slammed into is very, VERY real, and players who have come nowhere near this point feel apt to comment negatively on my concerns.
Let’s turn the tables on the naysayers: Other than being non-vanilla, what BAD things do you feel this change would cause?
If it increases interest in the game, gives veterans something to do, and causes zero (or very close to zero) people to “finish the game too soon,” then what the hell is wrong?
The main argument raised is that it makes the game easier and isn’t necessary. So what if it’s not necessary? Stackable grinders and EXP Share aren’t necessary, either. Regarding “easier:” If NOBODY in the history of PSO was able to finish Sphereing a set of gear legitimately, which I’m willing to bet, and ignorance of dupes doesn’t count, then maybe, just MAYBE Sega made it way too time consuming. Can you at least acknowledge that?! You guys are acting like I’m saying the moon is made of cheese, for Christ’s sake.
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But the moon is made of cheese, so I don't really get your point there.
Anyway I was doing something when the last drama posts were posted so I didn't really feel like dealing with it right away, but Lileya has been suspended from the forums for 3 days due to obviously derailing with a flamebaity post. Don't do that guys.
Carry on if you wish.
Anyway I was doing something when the last drama posts were posted so I didn't really feel like dealing with it right away, but Lileya has been suspended from the forums for 3 days due to obviously derailing with a flamebaity post. Don't do that guys.
Carry on if you wish.
lostinthought87
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Wil
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You haven't really described this "Progression Wall" you keep mentioning. What exactly is it that you want to do?
In the original post you mentioned the luck involved in finding Hit % Weapons to sell. Hit % weapons are the meta. You can't really blame the market for not valuing an item without it. But if that's really a concern wouldn't you want a rate boost drop patterns hit%?
You mentioned having to farm v101 and 502's to make money, so.. playing the game..? I don't follow. Yes some of us farm items to trade, that's... just playing the game. Hunting items is playing the game. Hunting items that others value in hopes to trade them for items that you value. The lore literally refers to us as hunters. We hunt treasure.
You brought up SCHTserv and it's unclear why.
Disagreement =/= Negativity
The burden of proof for the merit of these changes falls on you and others that support it, not the players who don't. If you make a good enough argument, you'll get a majority, and as Matt said, if you get a majority, he's likely to make the changes.
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Yes, hit % weapons are meta, but an even further meta is to create "completed" or "perfect" weapons, by using Photon Spheres on items to get a couple of attributes to 100% alongside with hit.
The problem that some people see is that once you have all your hit weapons, the next step is to farm Photon Drops (and consequently, Photon Spheres), however amassing the extreme amount of Photon Drops to fully complete your weapon sets is a very difficult task to do in a humanely amount of time.
To some, this is fine, as PSO is an "endless grinder" so to speak and finishing off all your weapons should take an extreme amount of time, but to others, this amount of time is far too much to ask players to realistically do, and many players will not do it because the returns for the effort put into it are relatively minor.
So in short, the Wall is that once you get to the Photon Sphere stage, you make almost no progress, because you hit a wall where you play for a while without any gains, and progression is very slow.
Hopefully this clears up the misunderstanding.
fishhao
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I like the idea of 2x pds but I dont like it when some nobody breathes down my throat telling me how many pds i should expect in my games.
Also if I get bored of a game, i usually stop playing for a while and look for something else to do. I thought that was the normal human response to boring things. Ephinea being boring to you isn't Ephineas problem, it's yours. It's not Ephineas fault that you're so inflexible that you don't want to do cmode or bmode or even make a new character for that progression good feeling you chime on about.
Tl;dr 2x pd sounds nice but stop pretending to be some paragon of justice who cares about the servers sake.
Also if I get bored of a game, i usually stop playing for a while and look for something else to do. I thought that was the normal human response to boring things. Ephinea being boring to you isn't Ephineas problem, it's yours. It's not Ephineas fault that you're so inflexible that you don't want to do cmode or bmode or even make a new character for that progression good feeling you chime on about.
Tl;dr 2x pd sounds nice but stop pretending to be some paragon of justice who cares about the servers sake.
Wil
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Thank you! It did!
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Sphere-ing weapons is end-game content for optimizing characters, Pure Filler. Because after that, there's nothing to do.
All the content in the game can be cleared comfortably with 50% Charge/Zerk/Hell Weapons which are given away for free or sold below 400k every day.
I guess my follow-up would then be, What changes will Ade request after the weapons are sphered and he/she hits the next Progression Wall. Or do you just quit playing after that.
I'm not being facetious. I just don't see the merit in removing play incentives.
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