No Resta Grr - DF Users Grr - a neverending debate?

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Ade said:
it was not legitimately obtainable until the very end of official PSOBB.
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i forgot about this but you are right, it was never an issue on official servers until the end

and even though all the hacking and cheating the official servers did get some things right
 
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Then its just pointless victim mentality farming then, since as Sundark stated previously there's an infinitely more amount of ways resta users can heal themselves or party members without stepping on the toes of the single most effective game strategy for Hunters.

If you cant find it in your heart to go buy Trimates and use those every now and then to heal then I truly dont think you (the player in question) has any right to sit around and complain about DF users. You have all the power, the DF user is uniquely at the mercy of everybody else in the party... how is this even a debate? One side is at the mercy of the other side, not the other way around.
 
Varista said:
Then its just pointless victim mentality farming then, since as Sundark stated previously there's an infinitely more amount of ways resta users can heal themselves or party members without stepping on the toes of the single most effective game strategy for Hunters.

If you cant find it in your heart to go buy Trimates and use those every now and then to heal then I truly dont think you (the player in question) has any right to sit around and complain about DF users. You have all the power, the DF user is uniquely at the mercy of everybody else in the party... how is this even a debate? One side is at the mercy of the other side, not the other way around.
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A fair point.

Also I'm not doing Vjaya math here so I'm not breaking my rule.

But let's say you rack up a 20k restock bill to replace all the Mates you used in the absence of Resta. (It could easily be over 50k if you start chipping into Star Atomizers, so 20k is fair.)

You can replace 40k Meseta in two minutes in a PW3 box run. So half of that is 20k for one minute.

So, unless DF usage speeds up the party by a FULL MINUTE, you're at an efficiency loss.

There's also the idea that people get annoyed at having to use consumables in video games because it feels like a failure of sorts. Or that you're playing in an unsustainable manner. This isn't rational, but I blame early JRPGs with perma-fail states for this mindset. Either way, that mindset isn't going anywhere.

Forcing people to engage with that mindset may be seen as an act of hostility. Or as the HU saying, "You're going to foot the increased restock bill because I am more important than you are." And it's really easy to slip into inserting this narrative (true or not) and becoming angered by it.
 
I think really it comes down to a knowledge & skills gap exacerbating the reality that the DF playstyle is not very accommodating if everyone in the party isn't all in on it.
The regression the thread experienced earlier is exemplary of the toxic hubris of those that would insist there is a "best" way to play, maintaining the rift in the community by attempting to invalidate the concerns of an apparently sizeable population that in fact does not want to be all in on accommodating DF.
There are, obviously, arguably "better" or more efficient ways to play than some others. Obviously, again, not everybody wants to enjoy the game in the same way, or with the same methods & severity of sweatiness. It seems to me the most gracious move of a community that wants to be welcoming would be to find ways to accommodate the masses when interacting with them, if for no other reason to gain enough amity to influence & assist in their development. Maybe we'll have less people spamming Spread Needle on Lizards if we put in the effort to help them develop in a way they can be receptive to, instead of immediately shunning them. Of course, that does not absolve said individuals of their own responsibility for improving themselves & the community's experience.
Further (imo) a lot of the fun is in the game is adapting and making things work despite what may or may not allegedly be ideal. Experimenting beyond the norm is how the game grows, as opposed to being refined into monotony & obsolescence. The fact that DMC no longer exists is a HUGE blessing b/c there's more opportunity to abandon homogeneity.
Most people don't even have the gear to attempt the homogenous idealizations anyway, regardless of the skill to flawlessly execute it. Playing in that reality is undeniably an area we could all grow in. Not only do some players find comfortable & particular niches, it's my belief that the classes are inclined to their own. I.E.: not every HU needs to be HUCT-lite, & I would LOVE to see that explored more. I don't think it's a big ask for the veteran or rookie players to learn to play with a community that doesn't want to be restricted to no resta. That doesn't mean DFers can't or shouldn't DF, it just means people need to be considerate. If sweaties want to sweat there are plenty of people willing, & not castigating those who don't bow down to the sweat ideology might open the door to more people getting curious & willing to try it, or perhaps even a newer "better" sweatier style.
If you depend on someone else to enable your playstyle, let's normalize seeing if they mind. Maybe apply that presumption to seeing if you can enable theirs. Further, instead of arguing over whether your way justifies telling someone else how to play, it'd be really awesome if we could as passionately promote knowledge of game mechanics, & how to be useful with and without Uber gear.
 
Ade said:
My reasoning is that FO is already serving others and taking on the less glamorous work to do so, so it should be their choice. That seems reasonable to me.
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I personally don't agree with your argument. Even playing in a public room, I don't think the FO should be the one to decide. We have to use common sense. If Hunter created the room and the FO isn't willing to play without giving resta, he should have the respect to leave the room. If the FO created the room and isn't willing to play without giving resta, Hunter has to have respect and should leave the room.

You say that because you play exclusively as RAcast. (By my count, it's already around 30 lol.)
 
allmirlima said:
I personally don't agree with your argument. Even playing in a public room, I don't think the FO should be the one to decide. We have to use common sense. If Hunter created the room and the FO isn't willing to play without giving resta, he should have the respect to leave the room. If the FO created the room and isn't willing to play without giving rests, Hunter has to have respect and should leave the room.

You say that because you play exclusively as RAcast. (By my count, it's already around 30 lol.)
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I have 8 RAcasts, but I have more total EXP on HUcast than most people have total EXP, period. So let's not get personal here, please.
 
Sundark said:
shooting lizards in the face with my needle all quest is how i have fun actually and it is indicative of the same toxic hubris that there are "best" ways to play to ask me not to do that
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I would like to elaborate on this because it cleanly fits into different methods on a spectrum of varying efficiency.

In no particular order, some things players do all the time in public games to make it a little more efficient and easy on themselves & others:
  • Swapping to a melee weapon instead of attacking Lizards & Yowies frontally with a gun

  • Asking the party to group up for a Delbiter or Dorphon charging

  • Asking others to stay out of the EP4 boss cave because it would complicate the fight needlessly (Not as common these days thanks to the excellent DMC patch)

  • Waiting until they are frozen before attacking active EP2 Sinows such that they do not teleport around

  • Also in EP2, asking people not to gifoie Deldepths because it takes a long time to kill them that way - see Delbiter/Dorphon group ups as well

  • Directing people to act in various ways depending on quest (pipe here now, go this way, let's split up in Phantasmal World 1 etc)
Managing your own hitpoint pool is thus simply another example of playing a little more efficiently. I don't think it makes sense to separate it into its own category of "controlling the party" - is suggesting to group up for a delbiter charge not controlling how someone plays?

In short it ought to be up to the players to communicate and cooperate in this online game.

Duke said:
How are you all still talking about this?
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In my case yes I'm aware this has been a slapfight older than the forum we're posting on, but at the same time I have debate brain, so it cannot be helped.

I rationalize posting like this to myself by thinking it would also be nice if someone new read my posts & learn something instead of shutting down the idea that they can get better at the game too.


Ade said:
Because new information and perspectives continue to come to light. You would see this if you took the time to read it.
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Brother what new information, which new perspective...?
 
I was mainly referring to the "The FO should be the one who decides." I hadn't seen it argued in such a compelling manner before now.
 
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