No Resta Grr - DF Users Grr - a neverending debate?

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Marella said:
Seems like good solution for 2 members of the party.

Other 2 should not have opinion

RA always wants resta, but they have to shut up because of agreement between FO and HU?

Hm...
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Good question!

All the roles will ultimately always decide what they will do through their actions or inaction of their own responsibilities. This doesn't change any of that. Why would it? This is what is going to happen anyways.

So in this particular case everyone can say their piece, but the force responsible for supporting the party will decide as it's their responsibility. I'm of the same opinion of the other roles of the game as well.
 
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hushmunkey said:
As an aside - I had thought about making a non-DF hu-guide a while back, but decided against it b/c the options are surprisingly vast, & b/c I want to own & have used & refined what I recommend. Since it takes thousands of PD's to sphere a build (in addition to getting the drops), I've scaled it back & am really only comfortable with what I've come up with for hucl & hunl, though I have theories for the boys.
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I adore anyone who shares things. Doesnt matter how crazy, and it doesnt matter how old some game is. Staying curious is exactly how new things are formed.
Like, people used to question on me for seeing the benefits of a sphered MR. But, because other people are way better at sharing info than I am, its actually done more (note: not just calculated, actually *done*, because calcs are just a start). Thats a good thing.
 
RazakelKairo said:
I adore anyone who shares things. Doesnt matter how crazy, and it doesnt matter how old some game is. Staying curious is exactly how new things are formed.
Like, people used to question on me for seeing the benefits of a sphered MR. But, because other people are way better at sharing info than I am, its actually done more (note: not just calculated, actually *done*, because calcs are just a start). Thats a good thing.
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FWIW I attached some quick reference plans for HUCL & HUNL. Happy to discuss, though maybe that should be done in a different thread or through DM's.
 

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The main time would be trying to proc invincibility, but as soon as it's procced, then Resta is back on the table. So it's not a condition for the entire run, in most cases. Usually when an Epsilon, or multiple Epsilons, spawn.

Also ep4 boss fight is a great time to proc invince, too, but usually the 2nd phase is soloed, so you don't have to worry about Resta, anyway.

Those are just two examples. But most of the time, over-Resta'ing a RA won't cause negative effects.
 
Ade said:
The main time would be trying to proc invincibility, but as soon as it's procced, then Resta is back on the table. So it's not a condition for the entire run, in most cases. Usually when an Epsilon, or multiple Epsilons, spawn.

Also ep4 boss fight is a great time to proc invince, too, but usually the 2nd phase is soloed, so you don't have to worry about Resta, anyway.

Those are just two examples. But most of the time, over-Resta'ing a RA won't cause negative effects
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hm... in a average random party how many people do that?

XD
 
Marella said:
hm... in a average random party how many people do that?

XD
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Learning how to use HP triggers is useful on every class. It is on the same efficiency spectrum as learning what weapons are good, using spheres to add attribute%s to them, carrying Hell/Demons when it's applicable for the quest and doing crowd control with Arrest, Frozen Shooter or Freeze Traps.

Just because you don't personally do it (which is fine) does not mean that it's not a valid use case.
 
Random parties would infer to being able to play with fresh level 80's on their first character ever, players with 32 level 200's, and everything in between. A massive spectrum of skill or lack thereof.
 
I would put "intentionally proccing invincibility" a step above the more obvious game mechanics, so I disagree with JC on that one. It requires an... I hate to say it... exploitative mindset. Which people are not naturally inclined to do. I never would have thought to do it myself if I had not learned it from someone else. But then again, I'm not very smart.
 
this thread continues to frustrate me but i'll make another post i guesssssss ughhhhh

at the bottom of this post (idk if you can type under tables it didn't seem like it tho) is a very important table for this discussion please look it over and review. you will see there is one (1) way for a player using a dark flow to continue using it effectively throughout the duration of a quest. you will then see there are five (jk i added more) ways for every other player to avoid using resta and healing the dark flow user while still healing themselves

there is no mechanical way for a dark flow user to actually dictate someone else's play in the same way that continually healing them does to them

when it comes to higher skill level PSO, hp management and dark flow usage are valuable skills that contribute greatly to the effectiveness and efficiency of players in the party. being able to heal yourself without relying on resta is a skill that has value because of this. learning how you can still actually use resta anyway through self-resta is a valuable skill because of this.

if the chief complaint against df users who ask for no resta is that "sometimes the df user in question is rude," that is not a valid reason to ignore that that is the only way for them to facilitate allowing df gameplay, it just means that person is being a dick, and that's on them and has no bearing on the rest of this entire conversation

this is the only point that matters and it is overwhelmingly in favor of accomodating df users.

ways df users can avoid
being affected by resta​
ways players can heal without
using resta/healing df users​
- asking their party not to use it- self-resta
-- have only resta lv 1-2 (unrealistic)
- learning their resta range and playing around it (tricky on fomarl/fonewearl but not impossible, extremely easy in general in tower where dark flow is particularly effective)
- monomates
- dimates
- trimates
- buy hushmonkey's 70h gush raygun for 45pds that i sold to him for 25pds
- telepipe and run to the medical center (dont do this)
- level up
- find and be affected by a heal trap
- healing rings in the field
- equip red ring or some other hp/regen item and wait 5 billion years (dont do this)
- be an android and wait 5 billion years while standing in place (you guessed it--dont do this)
 
Marella said:
I think the word is "niche"? (and therefore not relevant to the topic on the whole)

tell me if i'm wrong... maybe i misunderstand

topic is mostly about random parties? no?
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in the nicest way possible, JC (Argajag) is way better than you at the game. he is way better than me at the game, too.
 
Ade said:
I would put "intentionally proccing invincibility" a step above the more obvious game mechanics, so I disagree with JC on that one. It requires an... I hate to say it... exploitative mindset. Which people are not naturally inclined to do. I never would have thought to do it myself if I had not learned it from someone else. But then again, I'm not very smart.
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Disregarding that I doubt you hate to say it's "exploitative" given your posting history and DMs sent to me up until this point, it doesn't make sense to separate it on the basis that you didn't think of it yourself. Do we treat other ways to play efficiently the same? Did we learn everything we know about the game by our lonesome?

Say someone comes up with a clever way to deal with a problem in-game (could be a good position to stack gifoie in), others see it and will copy it becasue it's way better than what they were previously doing. HUmar see, HUmar do.

In other words I think learning from others is the *most* natural method of information propagating, certainly managing your health for MAG invulnerability is someplace higher up on the efficiency scale than say, picking a good weapon, but it is not fundamentally any different.
 
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