Nerf Black Paper 1 & 2

[anime]

TBH, he said everything that I'm too jaded to say. Been v busy lately, and haven't been in the PSO COMMUNITY INTERACTION headspace, which requires a ton of effort (when it comes to the suggestions forum). I normally stay away from here, but this is a thread that I care a lot about.

I don't think this'll ever happen on Ephinea, but I'm really happy that someone suggested it, and that I got to talk about it outside of Discord ^_^

Also @CTB WOW that was an amazing post to read thank you. I wasn't aware of the history of the quest and that really adds a lot of meaningful perspective.

 

[honeydrew]

Spoiler: too long dont read

I think it'd be really fun if they were returned to the original intended rarity so that players would have more items to collect!

this is the argument, simple as can be.
bpd items dont really affect collectible value because theyre 0'd and dropped items usually have stats

evil curst 0'd is worth low money because it doesnt have a lot of function. evil curst with stats has collectors value;
nug2000 0'd is worth low money because it doesnt have a lot of function. nug2000 with stats has collectors value (cg spuz);
0'd agito 1975 is worth like 8 based on its function, to use Oroti in game. agito 1975 with stats has collectors value (my -5h is unbuyable)

most of the weapons youre on about only have value to collectors and collectors just dont really buy bpd. yes, arguably taking things like them out of BPD would be cool for collectors, i literally changed my mind as i was typing this

dont nerf bpd but take out the sub-ubers pls. when i'm hype as fuck to have found a madams parasol from gibbles that hype is definitely suppressed by the fact that its just not that rare, strictly because of bpd. i get what ur saying now, animu but i'm gonna rephrase it to see if we can reach more ppl.

i am in favor of taking out the bpd items that only have collectors value. yasha, agito 1975, milla (maybe), the ones with a use can stay. new players (read: the victims of a bpd nerf) dont care about collectibles that are just collectibles, but they care a lot about accessibility to Sange & Yasha / Orotiagito. removing the dumb rare collectors-only stuff like Nug2000 and madam's parasol would give collectors a much better sense of accomplishment when having acquired another piece, while not affecting other players because nug just isnt that good of an item.

in the current state of things, if you get a madams parasol drop its pretty cool of course. sell it to a collector untekked for maybe 10pds depending on stats i guess.
*but*
1: a great amount of collectors only care about looks in game and dont care whether the parasol is BPD or not, which will significantly reduce the demand of a gibbles dropped parasol,
2: if it dropped from gibbles 0'd youre SOL.

collectors value comes partly from exclusivity. madam's parasol just takes a hard hit on exclusivity because of bpd.

my proposition:
remove the collectibles that only have collectible value from BPD. users want BPD's extense of accessibility for useful items, and collectors want exclusivity of useless totally cool collectibles. this will not hinder accessibility of useful weapons (sange&yasha, orotiagito) to newer players, and will enable collectors to be much more proud of their dank finds. note that this will benefit not only collectors pride, but non-collectors may profit from this--collectors are the ones who buy these.

Book of Hitogata: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its useless
Evil Curst: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its useless
Angel Harp: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its almost useless
DB's Saber 3064: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its useless
DB's Saber 3077: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its useless
Madam's Parasol: collectors pride will be restored; others should just use Tyrell's Parasol because its better and more common
Nug2000-Bazooka: collectors pride will be restored; others should just use Cannon Rouge because its better and more common
--
Handgun:Milla: this one is questionable; has great value to a player who just found a Guld with good stats. Milla is already an occasional event item as well; this might be good to keep might not
Agito 1975: users want Orotiagito. this one can stay as it provides good accessibility to a useful weapon
Yasha: users want to make use of their 40h Sange. this one can stay as it provides good accessibility to a useful weapon

there might be more. but the idea still stands. this is a good middle ground, right?

 

[Wil]

Spoiler: too long dont read

this is the argument, simple as can be.
bpd items dont really affect collectible value because theyre 0'd and dropped items usually have stats

evil curst 0'd is worth low money because it doesnt have a lot of function. evil curst with stats has collectors value;
nug2000 0'd is worth low money because it doesnt have a lot of function. nug2000 with stats has collectors value (cg spuz);
0'd agito 1975 is worth like 8 based on its function, to use Oroti in game. agito 1975 with stats has collectors value (my -5h is unbuyable)

most of the weapons youre on about only have value to collectors and collectors just dont really buy bpd. yes, arguably taking things like them out of BPD would be cool for collectors, i literally changed my mind as i was typing this

dont nerf bpd but take out the sub-ubers pls. when i'm hype as fuck to have found a madams parasol from gibbles that hype is definitely suppressed by the fact that its just not that rare, strictly because of bpd. i get what ur saying now, animu but i'm gonna rephrase it to see if we can reach more ppl.

i am in favor of taking out the bpd items that only have collectors value. yasha, agito 1975, milla (maybe), the ones with a use can stay. new players (read: the victims of a bpd nerf) dont care about collectibles that are just collectibles, but they care a lot about accessibility to Sange & Yasha / Orotiagito. removing the dumb rare collectors-only stuff like Nug2000 and madam's parasol would give collectors a much better sense of accomplishment when having acquired another piece, while not affecting other players because nug just isnt that good of an item.

in the current state of things, if you get a madams parasol drop its pretty cool of course. sell it to a collector untekked for maybe 10pds depending on stats i guess.
*but*
1: a great amount of collectors only care about looks in game and dont care whether the parasol is BPD or not, which will significantly reduce the demand of a gibbles dropped parasol,
2: if it dropped from gibbles 0'd youre SOL.

collectors value comes partly from exclusivity. madam's parasol just takes a hard hit on exclusivity because of bpd.

my proposition:
remove the collectibles that only have collectible value from BPD. users want BPD's extense of accessibility for useful items, and collectors want exclusivity of useless totally cool collectibles. this will not hinder accessibility of useful weapons (sange&yasha, orotiagito) to newer players, and will enable collectors to be much more proud of their dank finds. note that this will benefit not only collectors pride, but non-collectors may profit from this--collectors are the ones who buy these.

Book of Hitogata: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its useless
Evil Curst: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its useless
Angel Harp: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its almost useless
DB's Saber 3064: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its useless
DB's Saber 3077: collectors pride will be restored; others wont mind because its useless
Madam's Parasol: collectors pride will be restored; others should just use Tyrell's Parasol because its better and more common
Nug2000-Bazooka: collectors pride will be restored; others should just use Cannon Rouge because its better and more common
--
Handgun:Milla: this one is questionable; has great value to a player who just found a Guld with good stats. Milla is already an occasional event item as well; this might be good to keep might not
Agito 1975: users want Orotiagito. this one can stay as it provides good accessibility to a useful weapon
Yasha: users want to make use of their 40h Sange. this one can stay as it provides good accessibility to a useful weapon

there might be more. but the idea still stands. this is a good middle ground, right?

^See, this is great, and makes perfect sense. Clear and concise. Doesn't seem like it was meant to be in all caps. If this was the OP I would have voted yes.

 

[honeydrew]

^See, this is great, and makes perfect sense. Clear and concise. Doesn't seem like it was meant to be in all caps. If this was the OP I would have voted yes.

reposted for awareness + cleanup of degen + poll

https://www.pioneer2.net/community/threads/bpd-revised.11580/

 

[Mome Chomsky]

This might've made sense 10 years ago but seems totally pointless now. I don't see why it matters how easy it is to get smartlink (this isn't gamecube and smartlink isn't broken), cent/ability (lol), and min-stat vanity armors? It isn't staff's job to "fix" the economy, and making it harder to get some pointless items with the hopes that people would suddenly want to buy them wouldn't be a good way to go about doing that even if it were.

 

[Eistee]

This might've made sense 10 years ago but seems totally pointless now. I don't see why it matters how easy it is to get smartlink (this isn't gamecube and smartlink isn't broken), cent/ability (lol), and min-stat vanity armors? It isn't staff's job to "fix" the economy, and making it harder to get some pointless items with the hopes that people would suddenly want to buy them wouldn't be a good way to go about doing that even if it were.

SMARTLINK is arguably the best unit in the game (for 8 of the 12 classes). I love it, but damn is it good, especially on Forces.

 

[CTB]

That's a lot of needless aggression for someone who wants us to be open minded. You sure are painting with a broad brush and assuming a lot of things about the people who don't even necessarily disagree with you. There's nothing wrong with a healthy dose of skepticism. @anime has made a great case for your suggestion without the need of your brute force.

Maybe it is a good idea. Terrible messenger though. No offense. I mean really, take a moment to step outside yourself and read what you put down lmao.

What? No. I reviewed my post quite a bit. Almost all points are what others have referenced in this thread. You came in and posted a gem of "wished this was a troll." That is how you be a terrible messenger. Only thing I should have probably kept to myself is how I think people are set in their ways.

Now drew's updated proposititon is a post I like very much. A no BS-counter for nerfing it. I went through the list entirely before giving up on balancing Dorphons, and it was very much along these lines. I would have liked to remove 1975, Yasha, and Shouren (among others but who cares about those for the time being.)

The other portion needed to make the twin swords can already be found through DDWBP. I actually would prefer Milla to stay because of Guld. 1975 is one I would like to remove, but if the drops are reduced, keeping it can make sense with the renewed focus on roulette. I would have then added more drops to the upcoming chart rework to make these hunts more accessible.

I do think many of the units should be removed or reshuffled. I'll note the three "big" ones I would want changes for:
- Smartlink is one of the best units in the game, no questions asked. I like the idea of it being a rare to hunt and trade for, especially now that it is a possible drop.
- Centurion/Ability is near useless, I agree. But it is the best ability unit in the game and a freakin' Kondi drop. It has places on max stat builds (lol) as well. Replace with God/Ability.
- God/Battle is an incredibly useful unit, even if it is not the "best" Battle unit available anymore. It should stay but more items should be added to the Dorphon Pool to increase the rarity.

I agree some items should probably stay that I would have liked to remove - such as FS and SN - but others I do think should go regardless of how useful/people want. Does anyone want a V101 in DDWBP? Sort of like that.

random: I think DDWBP used to have Black King Bar as well, but it was removed. Not sure if that happened here or on ST.

im pretty sure this is never happening anyway now but i enjoy the theory crafting