Best way to kill Lizard/Yowies as FOmarl?

Miku

Miku

vocaloid
I've tried a lot of things and nothing really seems to simply be the best.

Thing 1 - the obvious, just use an excalibur. Problem is her stats aren't that great for it, and it also feels like she doesn't attack all that fast with it. I think my RAcast seems to attack a good bit faster but it could just be me. It seemed strong in theory but I haven't been all that successful with it.

Thing 2 - gi/rafoie spam. This doesn't really help when playing with HU/RAs as you'd damage cancel stronger attacks into this doing essentially no more damage than if you didn't do anything at all. Sure, it works great in a 4 FO party, but I almost never play in such a party.

Thing 3 - Demonic Fork + Megid. This seems like one of the best options to me as I do have level 30 megid and it's not that hard to line up where it'll hit 2 lizards at once. And unlike the aforementioned options, of course, this will kill in one shot when it works. Only drawback is carrying a demonic fork around but that's not a big deal.

Thing 4 - Grants. Gets around the damage cancelling problem by just doing intermittent big damage rather than lots of tiny damage. This definitely seems decent but isn't like overwhelming or anything. With Mercurious Rod this can do quite a lot of damage but its repeat rate is kinda low. Honestly seems kind underrated I'm and kinda surprised I never see anyone ever trying to do this.

Thing 5 - Foie. Honestly feels like a weaker grants so I don't really bother unless there's like 1 low lizard/yowie left then I might use this to finish it off. FOmarl's innate +50% to grants but no foie boost means her foie mostly just can't compete. Fonewearl might use it though.

Thing 6 - Vivienne. Great at beating up a single lizard/yowie if you have a good enough one, but in large part a shorter range and thus worse competitor to things like grants/megid. Maybe if you had a super insane one this would be busted but I don't have one to try and I'd still think it would be just kinda okay since it can only pick off one lizard at a time.

Thing 7 - Partisans. Stuff like Madam's Umbrella or Tyrell's Parasol. I think these are probably the best option if there are enough of them all grouped up where you can hit many with one attack. But you'll need one with very good stats for this to really worth it, and they're usually just a little too farm apart for this to even hit more than an excalibur would so usually kinda outclassed and I don't really find them all that usually usually.

Thing 8 - Rambling May. If you make a set of these and have one with 100% native, they can be very strong at picking off lizards, but with one huge catch. And that catch, of course, is having to get behind them before using it which likely wastes enough time that this is also just rarely worth going for unless the opportunity presents itself without you having to waste time setting it up.

Thing 9 - just don't attack them. Just let your teammates kill them while you use Jellen, Zalure, and then kill the other enemies and heal your teammates that wasted their HP using their excaliburs. Honestly this works reasonably well a lot of the time as barely anyone in randoms (how I usually play) ever goes for anything where they mind being heal in ep4 as it's just too easy to get hit there and thus too risky for most players.

My take - mostly just use zalure, also jellen if there are any dangerous enemies present, then pick off any other enemies I can, heal teammates when they need it, and help mop-up lizards with either megid when it can hit more than 1 or else just fire a rambling may if they happen to be in the right position for it, or else if it's almost finished use foie, else just use grants. Would be happy to hear any suggestions for something better than that to do as it really seems like there are tons of them in the current HBR and it often takes my FO a lot longer to do these quests than my RA whom can just wipe them out with an excalibur with his higher ATP, ATA, and I think attack speed.
 
Yes a FOnewm with a boosting weapon and shield could do enough with gi/rafoie to be quite powerful against them but I don't really like FOnewm that much. I'm much more of a FOmarler and want to know how to best deal with them with her.
 
The best thing most likely is going to be using the Hell special over Megid on yowies/lizzies.

This is because lizzies have 50 EDK and the Hell special has an 86% activation rate vs megids 50% (granted you hit of course).

Yowies have 60 EDK and a 66% vs 39% rate of activation for Hell and Megid respectively.

As for what the best gear is, you can easily acquire a red/yellow single hit unreduced common saber weap with 50-60 hit stat from the scavenger during events but that weap is only single target afterall.

The best upgrade for your FOmarl i can think of then would be the S Rank ES Scythe Weapon
Which will allow you to hit up to 10 targets unreduced with the Hell special. Yowies/lizzies tend to group up nicely so the weapon is great.

Here is a great guide that breaks down the differences in percentages on Hell vs Megid
 
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in parties, most of the time, in most quests, some combination of (in this order) gifoie, rafoie, excal and megid

In solo just use rafoie

SirLagsAlot said:
words
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with 170 base ata (+ broadly poor fomarl animations) this is a really weak option for fomarl. megid with or without fork is a far better way to OHKO lizards for fomarl than any kind of melee/ranged option, especially as fomarl doesnt really have the room for v502 in E4
 
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cameron- said:
in parties, most of the time, in most quests, some combination of (in this order) gifoie, rafoie, and excal

In solo just use rafoie


with 170 base ata (+ overall poor fomarl animations) this is a really weak option for fomarl. megid with or without fork is a far better way to OHKO lizards for fomarl than any kind of melee/ranged option, especially as fomarl doesnt really have the room for v502 in E4
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Well a NSS combo from the Scythe has a 42% chance to hit up to 10 enemies on FOmarl. With Megid you have a 50% proc on 1 or multiple enemies if you have Demonic Fork and line up enemies (in this case sattelite lizard). As for Yowies the proc drops to 39%. Id say its worth it to use and its effects will probably be most noticable in OPM where enemies has less EDK. As for team play you have 3 other players also trying to Hell it could actually be worth it to have a 50h common AND a scythe depending on the spawn and how spread apart the spawns are.

A 50h common gladius using the NSS combo has a 30% chance to land a hit on the first S and a 84% chance to land on the second S or last hit of the combo.

As for gear its already commonplace to have alternate mags for FOs. Units could be, 101, 801, 502 and still leave a 4th slot for whatever you want while still being able to probably max ATA most importantly (with help of mag most likely, or adept) as well as being able to max mst or atp
 
42% vs edk to hit up to 10 enemies on fomarl = you get knocked over
30% vs edk to 84% vs edk = you get knocked over

in both use cases you list you will spend most of your time standing back up after getting spat on. Please feel free to try it out for yourself. hell is not a useful or realistic option for fomarl against lizards. even fomarl's weak techs are far stronger than attempting to use a hell special. and in e4 you should be using v101, v801, smartlink, /tech
 
Please do not use FOmarl with ES Scythe or any class other than RAngers unless you wish to endure pain.

RAmar/RAmarl are the only classes that can successfully 100% accuracy (in multi) a Crater Lizard/Yowie with an NNS combo. (RAcast 86/86, RAcaseal 92/93)
And no class can 100% Sub Des Lizard/Yowie (RAmar 80/80 and Ramarl 78/80).

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As for what to do in E4 on a FOmarl: While you are no nuking god prepping a lot of gifoie before waves can still be decent, Rafoie when not prepping before waves, and if you are scared to DMC as others are attacking lizards then you can excal/megid ones not being targetted.
 
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Fully boosted FOmarl Gifoie (Ignition Cloak, Gifoie Merge, Magical Piece) is still better than no Gifoie at all in most quests. But yeah, FOmarl does have a bit of a hard time in Ep4, sadly.

Also, it's not just your imagination. Male saber animation is way superior to the female animation, and FOmarl's animation is even worse than that. Still, Excal can be very good on her, even if you won't be able to NHS unfrozen enemies in Desert. NNH still is pretty decent with 100N, however!

ES Scythe with Hell is not an option at all on her. Please note that her Partisan/Scythe animation is also slower than usual, making getting knocked over basically guaranteed when using it on Lizards. Megid 30 and Demonic Fork / Dark Bridge can be surprisingly good, especially in Crater / Crater Routes. Tyrell's Parasol also needs obscene Hit% to NHS unfrozen Lizards (literally 100h to get NHS 100% of the time on Desert Yowies).

Vivienne with decent Hit% and sphered Native is quite good against single Lizards. For 100% accuracy for NNH, you need 40h and RR - not too easy to get, but an achievable goal. And I think even lower Hit% works decently well.
 
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I wanna say, an ES-Scythe on HU can be pretty darn beautiful if you can prime it for some spawns, but its also an investment for very niche circumstances and if you'll use one for situational sakes a Vjaya will be less costly. Furthermore, those situations primarily come alive mostly in OPM-mode.

It is really REALLY comfy though if you don't care much about getting poked by a squid from time to time, but not on FOmarl, and especially not on lizards, and especially especially not in multi-mode.
 
SirLagsAlot said:
The best thing most likely is going to be using the Hell special over Megid on yowies/lizzies.

This is because lizzies have 50 EDK and the Hell special has an 86% activation rate vs megids 50% (granted you hit of course).

Yowies have 60 EDK and a 66% vs 39% rate of activation for Hell and Megid respectively.

As for what the best gear is, you can easily acquire a red/yellow single hit unreduced common saber weap with 50-60 hit stat from the scavenger during events but that weap is only single target afterall.

The best upgrade for your FOmarl i can think of then would be the S Rank ES Scythe Weapon
Which will allow you to hit up to 10 targets unreduced with the Hell special. Yowies/lizzies tend to group up nicely so the weapon is great.

Here is a great guide that breaks down the differences in percentages on Hell vs Megid
Click to expand...

I <3 that you reccomend my old guide, but yeah...I don't think I'd recommend smacking lizards with a s-rank hell scythe.
 
It depends a lot on the specific spawn/room, and if you’ve had time to stack Gifoie or not. FOmarl Gifoie is still very useful for Forest-Mines & Ep4, even if it’s weaker than on the other FOs.

If you’re initially entering a room and the first spawn is all Lizards/Yowies, it’s usually best to Zalure first since your team will be killing them with Excal, etc. while you start stacking Gifoie for the next spawn(s). Otherwise, I usually don’t Zalure all-Lizard/Yowie spawns at all, so that I can focus on keeping Gifoie going, and sometimes Rafoie to finish them off if they are the last spawn of a room and are all in range.

For rooms where you’re moving through them quickly - like a lot of rooms in NMU1, or the fireball room of NMU5, Gifoie isn’t as useful other than to stop Zu. Megid with Demonic Fork can be really useful here for the far away lizards that are facing your team, since there’s not really a better way to kill them quickly in this case. These two quests (and probably others, these two are just more fresh in my mind as they were part of recent/current HBR) have some spawns that are lined up perfectly for this!
 
Okay so new question, which character class is the best at the desert, and I don't just mean the current hbr but also stuff like MAE:Desert? Like if I were going to make a new Red/Green character to hunt hs, what would be the best option or maybe top 5 options in case I don't like and/or already have the class suggested? I'd think probably RAmarl is the best for hs special with striker unit doing a lot of damage while still having good accuracy for things like arrest needle and demon's needle/demon mechs to paralyze and then kill giratablulus or other big enemies. Having level 20 support techs also a nice bonus in that she can be a solid addition to any team you find in randoms.

But I do think any of the RAs or the non-FOmarl FOs are pretty good at it. As much as I like my FOmarl she just doesn't seem very good against the tons of Lizards/Yowies.
 
Hmm, after testing it some more, yes I like the FOnewearl the best there. With super high MST to deal lots of damage with gifoie along with high ATA for a FO to use Arrest/Demon's against the strong enemies, as well as also having the FO support spells, you really can't go wrong with her there. FOnewm could be better in theory on a team where your teammates can get rid of the big enemies really fast for you, but FOnewearl is the best 1-person team that can do it all there.
 
I'd say FOnewm is best. FOney is cool but she needs one more Gifoie against Rappies and Merissa As, which can be annoying. I do prefer FOney in "poison room" or "heat room" quests, however.

FOmar needs just as many Gifoie casts as FOnewm, so that can be nice. He does lack the RA spell capabilities of FOnewm and FOney, though.

I mentioned it before, but fully boosted FOmarl Gifoie is still better than no Gifoie at all in many quests. The "staggering effect" and keeping Zus at bay alone is worth it sometimes. Helling away one spawn and moving one is OK, but if the room is longer, not having Gifoie really blows.

That being said, yeah, FOmarl has some issues in Ep4. I personally haven't played her there in years, now that I think about it...
 
Eh... IMO, there really IS no perfect answer to the problem; it's more a matter of finding the compromise you are able to live with the easiest.

Best solution I have found for myself is to get good at quick-swapping, and drop in a V502 and a Saber-type weapon with Hell in whenever the li'l buggers spawn in. Or, if you're feeling ballsy and are running something with mobs of the annoying so-and-so's, a Partisan-type with Hell; you get the reduction of effectiveness from the weapon type, but can hit entire mobs once they cluster up so it kind of balances out... Kind of.

If you have the resources to spring for an S-Rank and build it up that might be a better option, but... Well, for me personally it's just not worth that kind of investment. I'd rather just support the rest of the party with S/D/J/Z/Resta and whatever damage my techs allow. I've never really worried about being top DPS in the party as a FOmarl... That's not her role in almost any party, and trying to force her into it (pun intended) is just asking for problems.
 
Talisien said:
Eh... IMO, there really IS no perfect answer to the problem; it's more a matter of finding the compromise you are able to live with the easiest.

Best solution I have found for myself is to get good at quick-swapping, and drop in a V502 and a Saber-type weapon with Hell in whenever the li'l buggers spawn in. Or, if you're feeling ballsy and are running something with mobs of the annoying so-and-so's, a Partisan-type with Hell; you get the reduction of effectiveness from the weapon type, but can hit entire mobs once they cluster up so it kind of balances out... Kind of.

If you have the resources to spring for an S-Rank and build it up that might be a better option, but... Well, for me personally it's just not worth that kind of investment. I'd rather just support the rest of the party with S/D/J/Z/Resta and whatever damage my techs allow. I've never really worried about being top DPS in the party as a FOmarl... That's not her role in almost any party, and trying to force her into it (pun intended) is just asking for problems.
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My philosophy is basically this (for team play, although in OPM monsters have reduced EVP so it remains viable)
You really dont want to be spamming Techs, because they cause DMC. The rest of the party is probably Helling (or they should be because its faster with S beats arms with every single class that can use them bar HUcast and maybe HUmar with a fully sphered excal).
im filming a vid to prove my theory but just from testing alone im saving like an average of 50% time using a hell saber with hit and s rank scythe compared to techs. Even if it misses alot in multiplayer (scythe) those couple of the 10 you can target and kill actually saves the team quite a bit of time without directly hindering them with DMC.
So much of the metagame here really seems to be fitting into the status quo instead of simply taking a step back and analyzing and looking at all the options and figuring out which is the best one. (When really its as simple as firing up sandbox mode and testing it for yourself)
Really, as a FO you wont have much time to do much either than SDZ. Those fews seconds should be used optimally (hopefully) without hindering other players with DMC.
Look out for my vid in the coming weeks (because nobody seems to be able to take my word due to cognitive dissonance of being presented with new information) so i will literally have to prove what i am talking about. As well as one highlighting new-meta weaps and strats which actually outclass the DPS from what is considered to be the best of best most viable options.
(Controversial) Topics for the Video(s)
-Why most classes suffer/dont need excal
-Why s beats arms outclasses Excal for killing lizards for mostly all classes
-Why using Hell/Demons as a FO benefits the party more than using techs (outside of stun locking certain spawns)
-Why killing Dal Ral Lie with Rianov is either just as fast or faster for a RA (as well as explaing how Dal Ral Lies and the other wyrms mechanics work and why doing multiplayer makes rianov even more viable in this situation)
-Why Type ME/MEs outpace the DPS of Heaven Striker by almost 2x
-Why and when hit does and does not matter (snow queen etc, insane DF hit only needed for 2-3 niche spawns)
-Why the HBR nerf (which was silently added and nobody seems to have noticed) effectively makes HBR terrible in comparison to its old version
-Why the Anguish nerf placed years after its inception messed up the economy and solely gives older players an advantage economically
-Why anguish actually makes the game much more fun rather than competing to land a hit whatsoever and can be run with a1 atleast while losing very little to no time at all in your runs. Its benefits being so great every single game should be ran with atleast a1
-Highlighting that leveling means little to nothing in PSO with a good portion of the class list capable of being fully endgame at lvl 80
-Showing that the removal of MaS affects leveling very little while possibly benefitting the player more due to the drops you can recieve (pls no nerf ep 4 exp)
-Why the section ID system was a desperate way for SEGA to create more content where there was none and why the Section ID badge event actually made it fun and usefull to have all the IDs and removing it (even if it was “broken” prizes of course could be nerfed) made Ephinea less fun overall (as well as this event being removed with no formal announcement [once again lol]) further dividing the playerbase and devs
-Why DF is unbalanced and goes against the entire flow of RPG videogames forcing the mage not to heal. As well as forcing other characters to waste inventory space for mates when they could just resta but cannot because its a situation where healing is viewed as griefing or they can learn a complicated glitch or use a macro to perform it. but it could be fixed very easily with something like a /noresta command or simply have it work how it does now but at full hp instead
 
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