Wondering why TTF wasn't removed along with MAS + suggestion for leveling

Steven

Steven

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Hi, I was wondering what the purpose of removing MAS was outside of the announcement. It's claimed to be "anti-gameplay", not a good introduction to new players, improperly balanced for exp, AND the fact new players were regularly power leveled using it...when TTF exists.

TTF is that one quest everyone has done dozens of not hundreds of times for the sheer purpose of leveling up as quickly as possible just to reach ultimate because the early game is unfun and near unplayable because 99% of the drops are worthless outside of a few units and such along the way.

It ticks all of the boxes MAS did. It's a literal boss rush that is actually more confusing to a new player than MAS ever was because no new player knows about the shortcuts and what mobs to kill...whereas with MAS there's no thinking required you just kill for the sole purpose of it and nothing else because you don't get drops - that itself being a deal breaker for some who would prefer to get drops along the way doing other quests that do instead, albeit with lower experience over time.

The rush portion can be stressful for someone learning the game because you are immediately pressured into going through each stage as quickly as possible. Killing non-key trash mobs is pointless and a waste of time due to a majority of the exp being received from the bosses. Because it's used to power level new people so much, the bosses will die near instantly anyway. A player getting carried is just there to tag and stand there till they get fed exp.
TTF is the same experience as MAS only with a different skin.

Instead of funneling new players into content like that, do a better job at making the early game more fun and friendly to new players instead. It's an absolute slog nobody enjoys besides those who enjoy helping people because it's incredibly slow and uninteresting. Boost 1-80 exp. Give people reasons to spam something other than TTF or even MA4 because there is absolutely no variety in the early game. HBR does nothing for new players because there's nothing to farm for and even then, ultimate will drop better versions of those same items at better rates regardless. Make a version of HBR but for boosted exp instead so people do a rotating series of maps every change. HBR is only there to keep endgame players from becoming too bored between holiday boosts.

MAS had a good purpose it served well. Anyway that's all bye y'all
 
Sonic Team made TTF with multiple ways of clearing it. Also, you can play as the Dragon. Did I mention MAS had hallmark "my first quest" of placing SONIC JAMZ everywhere?

MAS: -1
TTF: 3

I think most people don't view the initial trip to 80 as "unplayable and unfun" or they wouldn't play PSO to begin with. Server has regular EXP boosts as well so . . . maybe these funneled players can enjoy not optimal quests for some variety.
 
MAS is one of the older custom quests and is considered badly designed and was basically only added because there was a much smaller quest selection at the time. Its sole purpose is to level quickly and had no drops, while Towards the Future is a Sega quest, and exists to be a Boss Rush quest, but its also a viable hunting map for several monsters, including slimes.

Honestly most of the problems you rise seem like issues with PSO in general, where theres limited multiplayer experience for new players. You remove TTF from the selection, what does it solve exactly? People would move to Respective Tomorrow or Carl's Clock Challenge for powerleveling? Both of these quests are much harder and more confusing for new players. TTF truly shines BECAUSE its a simple quest that doesnt require much skill or resources to complete, and the shortcuts are very easy to memorize unlike, say, optimal pathways in Goverment quests. MAS is actually a bad quest in that regard because new players CANT do this quest by themselves since the amount of enemies overwhelm them extremely quickly. Push new players to other quests and you only make the situation you are talking about worse.
 
The early game serves the purpose of teaching the player the mechanics of the game, how to deal with enemies, party structure, support methods, and to ready them for Ultimate. MAS evades this because its a glorified handholding quest when you're new. While TTF can still be this, it's not even remotely as intrusive to new players. It still teaches the game because its actually playable for new under geared players. While yes, the game is old, and not being in Ult with most of the other players sucks, it's there for a reason and that reason is that we still get a unusual amount of new players who've never touched this phantasy star title before.

To be blunt, Shuttling people to Ultimate faster is a great way to get people to ignore or even block people who are new or from others games, or just frustrate experienced players by having baggage running around in their games. I know that's kind of mean to say but Multiplayer is a team game, if you're hindering your party you're kinda not contributing to the team. I'm sure the Staff's intentions were more pure than this, it goes towards the same purpose.

On that, if you're having people rush you through TTF anyways, you're still getting carried. TTF ends up slightly less braindead, because you can actually contribute and are forced to learn the game a bit more. If you really want to complain about a variety aspect, MAS is far more "funneling" in the fact that you don't need to play anything else. This seems more about the method than the end result.
 
TTF was a Sega original quest, so that's almost a non-starter in itself when it comes to removal discussions (see also: BPD). What's more, MAS was very poor quality in nature, with the spawns being much more of "monster spam" than any other quest in the game by far. Also, like @Nikki said, TTF's lack of gameplay isn't on remotely the same level as MAS's; you could literally start MAS and stand still while someone cleared out the first area for you. Sure, TTF's gameplay is minimal, but at least it exists.

With TTF, you also get to look at almost every enemy type in Episode 1 and actually have the potential to interact with them, which isn't the case for MAS at all, which is just someone casting Rafoie over and over to quickly level you without you gaining anything else... and then you're at level 80 with, like, an Autogun or something, because there aren't any drops from MAS and you don't full clear MAS so you don't even get Meseta.

TL;DR: TTF good, go help those level 40 somethings find some God/Arms and then farm RR with them once they're at 80 since you can actually hunt things while you play TTF. You know, the thing PSO's built around.

Steven said:
It's an absolute slog nobody enjoys besides those who enjoy helping people because it's incredibly slow and uninteresting.
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Steven said:
HBR is only there to keep endgame players from becoming too bored between holiday boosts.
Click to expand...
P.S. Be careful making sweeping statements that speak for everyone. ;)
 
Ultimately, Ephinea is meant to be a server that replicates the classic experience with perks.

There is more to the classic experience than just things like class and gear balance, and MAS was easily one of the worst offenders. There's some other offensive things, maybe we'll look at them some day.

When it comes to the early game, I'm not so sure everyone hates the early game. People who have been in Ultimate surely do, because they've done N-VH before and just want to play Ultimate, but for new players, playing all sorts of quests and hunting early items is great fun. If N-VH is supposedly the worst thing ever for new players, the issue is actually the community wiping out that part of the game by power levelling people and showering them in free items - you may actually be ruining the game for new players if you don't let them experience the early game: just think back to when you were brand new to PSO and were discovering it.

Anyway, if you want an experience which rushes you through the game to some undefined "endgame", maybe another PSO server would be better for you?
 
Lol @ removing ttf.
each ep has a boss rush so it’s only fair we have (sega official at that) one for each ep

Now onto the point of MaS I see where the devs were coming from in new players maybe being rushed into it and missing out on the early game. As a hc-only player I find the early game to be the best when just starting out with 0 scapes etc however there is indeed very little to no good drops.

As one becomes more of an experienced player you you inevitably want to make new characters I found this is what MaS was used for the most in my own personal experience. I even use an alt to lvl myself in this instance so that I don’t have to wait/rely on anyone.

I had a novel idea the other day… what if once you hit level 200 the game awards you with a “level 80 token” allowing you to just level to 80 instantly. Having to achieve level 200 first ensures that you aren’t a noob and likely have gear already for the char. Because as experienced players, yes we all mostly view 1-80 as a huge waste of time when making our 4th 5th 6th etc char.

Now of course there are other quests to level with CCC or endless or MAE for example may even meet or surpass the exp per minute ratio as well as having item drops that may or may not be relevant in VH.

MaS might have not even been the best quest for the job but it was simply what we had grown accustomed too. There could potentially be faster xp somewhere. We just did it out of habit lol.
 
I too proposed this Lv. 80 token. That would be nice for people who have proven they are familiar with N-VH already by hitting 200. It would need to be account bound similar to the Section ID Badges during the Summer Scavenger event. This would solve the issue of veterans hating N-VH (let's face it; at Lv. 80 you're only 1.5% EXP of a Lv. 200), and BRAND NEW players won't get skipped ahead and miss their FIRST TIME playing N-VH, which is amazing- the FIRST TIME ONLY. It truly is abysmal every time after that unless you took a break for YEARS. Then maybe nostalgia would kick in.

If you're a veteran just joining the server for the first time, you'll have to take your lumps on that first character, but you can't solve everything.

I like the passion of the first post. I'm glad TTF isn't being removed. But God it's boring. Too much time gets spent in TTF because of RR, which is a shame. I think Red Ring was made too rare such that too much of a character's "career" is spent in TTF from 80 onward because of how necessary it is. (Unless you're a Ranger because you get a free pass with Ranger Wall.) Perhaps that should be addressed along with the Lv. 1 - 79 issue for repeat players.

Edit: This "no MAS" situation should be monitored closely. If early game leveling gets slowed down too much- such that nobody wants to help new players level anymore- we might lose people. And that would need to be addressed quickly. We're lucky to have @Harborer of Hope aka Mew, but most people don't have a heart of gold like her. I imagine she has prevented hundreds of players from quitting the early game, and should be commended for that.
 
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*drops out of lurk* Back again after a long hiatus, figured I'd toss my 2 meseta in here.

TOTALLY get removing MAS for the documented reasoning. I do, however, lament losing it for unsealing things like adapts, lames and sjs, something I personally find far more tedious and dull than getting a character to 80. Would it possible to keep the quest but have it give out zero xp? No clue if that's even something that can be done, just a thought/suggestion.
 
There are other quests to unseal with, and MAS was not the most efficient anyway (Beyond the Horizon is).

Furthermore, MAS was an issue for more than just the power levelling aspect, it was also incredibly ugly and as CTB said, had a very "my first quest" look to it. If we're trying to have a server that has an experience similar to PSO back in the day, quests like this are a no-no.
 
Baby's first Doom.wad.

I personally don't really mind leveling through N/H/VH, but the experience is a lot more fun if you can gather people to play with. Even as a PSO vet, MAS was a horrible experience for me and from what I've seen there are new players whom are thrown into Ultimate without basically much to strive on, some of which have already quit (understandable, I would too). On the other hand, while TTF is boring for me now, it definitely wasn't at first and it does teach you the entirety of episode 1 in its very basics. Its also chill enough to get to know people.

I'll be blunt. The only reason I hate the leveling is because people were being power leveled to the degree that MAS allowed. TTF aside, there are enough people that recently joined that want to try out new things. It makes me want to start a new char from scratch just for fun.
 
From what I gather, the point was never to remove power leveling, it was to remove a pointless quest that was abused.

Wether people like it or not, TTF is a part of PSO history, and without it, many new players wouldn't have the patience to deal with the grind and thus the community would be MUCH smaller (which is probably why Sega introduced it in the first place). And besides, don't forget there are multiple ways to play TTF, such as min kill, max kill, love quest and TA.
 
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Matt said:
There are other quests to unseal with, and MAS was not the most efficient anyway (Beyond the Horizon is).
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Well, duh moment from my being away from the game so long, I actually thought Beyond the Horizon WAS the quest that was removed, somehow I got the names confused, so nevermind, I retract my previous comment. Clearly it can kick rocks if I didn't even remember which quest it actually was correctly. 'Preciate the correction though!
 
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