What are the Differances comming from Dreamcast v2?

[CaelThunderwing]

i just registered for the forum to post, and mentioned briefly this in my Intro topic and to ask this is better suited in general,

i had been playing for awhile on Dreamcast v2 ala Sylverant Server. i had in the past played PSO-PC before and PSOBB, (for a verry short brief time before sega ended up taking it Down.)

i'm curious of one thing for PSO-BB as i cant recall anymore if i even Did notice that far back, Are there differences in stats/Attack/EXP Gain to PSOBB compare dto PSO DC v2 thats not part of this servers Hardcore or non /purist modes?

 

[Matt]

The base game is relatively similar, but the entire games are balanced differently. They play the same, but not quite.

Here's what I can think of off the top of my head:

• Characters are vastly rebalanced. Each character has a more unique set of stats, with the humans/newmans getting different sets of technique levels, androids getting traps in all difficulties, and the forces getting boosts depending on which character you take. Certain techniques are class specific too.
• Monsters are also rebalanced. Forces will actually do damage with techniques (although note that it isn't quite as good as Hunters/Rangers in general), and you won't need strong gear to kill quickly in Ultimate. However, there is more of a focus on the Hit % stat on weapons, as ATA is much more valued in BB.
• Weapon %s calculate differently. In V2, 50% on a weapon would give you an increase of 50% ATP overall. In BB, 50% on a weapon will give your weapon 50% more ATP, meaning they are less effective.
• There is a material cap depending on your race. Humans can eat 250, androids and newmans can eat 150. You cannot just chug all materials you find now without wanting to reset later.
• EXP gain is different. Episode 1 is similar, but since Episode 2 and 4 are harder, they give larger gains.
• Episode 2 and 4 exist. More content. The existence of these episodes adds more items as well, of all categories, along with an Episode 2 Challenge Mode.
• 3 extra classes: HUcaseal (high ATA hunter), RAmarl (high MST ranger) and FOmar (high ATP force).
• In general, the drop tables are more "fair". V2 had a decent set of drops, but many of the drops were behind walls of 1/542,692 drop rates. The vast majority of these are gone now, with only a very small amount of items having these sorts of drop rates (and with that being said, the rarest item has a drop rate of something like 1/33,608. There's lower drop rates, but they can be obtained with an easier drop rate from another ID/monster).
• Minor, but on BB, characters will run after 1 step instead of 3.

Probably some other stuff...

 

[CaelThunderwing]

Thanks. it used to take quite a long delayed start in DC v2 compare dto how quickly i've leveled to 9 sofar so i guessed there was something up but didnt think it was part of BB itself.

 

[Aleron Ives]

The game doesn't really change that much until you reach Ultimate, at which point the experience is very different.

• Enemies are much weaker, so players have to come up with their own ways to inject challenge into the game, such as TAing everything.
• Weaker enemies mean that nonrare weapons are a viable option, so many rares are outclassed by nonrares with Hit %.
• The difficulty is based on ATA instead of ATP, so Techniques are devalued, as you can do plenty of damage without Shifta and Zalure. In V2, doing 0 damage without support Techniques is a distinct possibility.
• Force support range has been massively nerfed. Forces are now required to equip specific weapons and shields in order to get good range, and if you're a Force without an inherent class range boost, your range will always be relatively bad.
• Most Episode II enemy projectiles are changed to Megid, so the V2 strategy of attacking, getting hit, and healing no longer works.
• You no longer get any respite frames after getting hit, so enemies can instantly chain you to death, as in V1.
• Touching an enemy disables the joystick in that direction, so you can't wiggle out of tight spots anymore. On the other hand, you can now slide against most walls, instead of stopping dead in your tracks every time you touch one.
• New enemies have AI that discourages specific strategies. Episode II Sinows warp away when you melee them, so you have to shoot them. Gorans warp when you shoot them, so you have to melee them.
• Special attacks are a thing. The V2 meta of NHHing everything is dead.
• The enemy changes mean that Freeze Trap, Frozen Shooter, and Snow Queen are highly prized, as the best way to deal with the cheap enemies is to just freeze them and then destroy them while they're helpless. Classes without the ability to reliably freeze enemies are at a major disadvantage to the classes that can.
• Rares drop in quests, so the V2 mindset of playing strictly for fun is dead. You're expected to play an area with a Section ID that can find good items, even if you'd rather be playing a different character.
• The community mindset has been replaced with a competitive one. Picking a bad class will make some people not want to play with you, because they would rather play with somebody who's using a good class and thus contributes more to the team.

 

[Nikki]

Touching an enemy disables the joystick in that direction, so you can't wiggle out of tight spots anymore.

This has always pissed me off. lol

 

[Aleron Ives]

Yeah, it's super obnoxious. On V2 you can walk in place against an enemy, so you can escape clusterfucks most of the time. On V3/4 you have no choice but to stand there and die, because no matter which direction you press on the joystick, nothing happens.

 

[ElenorCamuel]

I have a huge spot in my heart for version 2, but I would disagree with a number of things here:

Enemies are much weaker, so players have to come up with their own ways to inject challenge into the game, such as TAing everything.
Weaker enemies mean that nonrare weapons are a viable option, so many rares are outclassed by nonrares with Hit %.

The way BB/GC are balanced lead to a much greater diversity of play and allow the player much more creativity in trying different strategies. Time attack is certainly not the only way to have fun in this game, and actually being able to use some of the neat abilities Sega gave weapons in a viable way can be lots of fun. This range of weapons also allows many characters to employ strategies that can overcome their weaknesses. My racaseal on BB can solo PW4 fairly cleanly, using the diverse weapon set available. My racaseal on version 2 attempting to solo Soul Blade would be a war crime. Unless you were one of those indviduals with a 180% needle, in which case eww.

I can look back fondly now on limited weapon set available to me in version 2, but the exciting gameplay loop in Version 2 of: Force Buffs team and Debuffs enemies --> Rest of team hits things with Imperial Pick and Red Handgun using N H H combos gets stale.

Also as an aside how screwed were rangers in version 2? They may be godly now, but the only reliably findable weapon in Version 2 for rangers was Red handgun. Legitimate Sranks filled some gaps but were only actually viable with force support.

The difficulty is based on ATA instead of ATP, so Techniques are devalued, as you can do plenty of damage without Shifta and Zalure. In V2, doing 0 damage without support Techniques is a distinct possibility.

Force support range has been massively nerfed. Forces are now required to equip specific weapons and shields in order to get good range, and if you're a Force without an inherent class range boost, your range will always be relatively bad.

I would disagree that techniques were valuable on version 2. Outside of Shifta and Deband, Jellen and Zalure and some rabarta, Forces as the game was played 20 years ago were not using techniques. Forces smacking things with Chameleon Scythe and Huge Plantain fan were the norm.
Forces can actually play using soley techs through the vast majority of the game.

I mean unless we are going to count the fact that S and D had to be refreshed every time a mag triggered, or somebody wanted to show off their S Reds, as rewarding technique usage

Rares drop in quests, so the V2 mindset of playing strictly for fun is dead. You're expected to play an area with a Section ID that can find good items, even if you'd rather be playing a different character.

I would take the most issue with this statement. It was actually tough to find people to play quests on Version 2. If you wanted to play a Quest like EN4 or Soul Blade, you needed a force, if you didn't want it to be an extremely painful slog. Most people didn't want to play quests since as you point out NO RARE ITEMS DROP IN QUESTS. Even back in the stone age of 56k, people wanted to find items in this game. And if you tell me this was not the case, I would point to the endless parade of Crazy Tunes, Twin Blazes, Tripolic Shields, Sealed J Swords, Lavis Blades, etc. that people "found" as evidence that, yes, even in a time where people thought "I am really looking forward to Attack of the Clones!", people wanted cool things in video games.

Forest to Ruins freeplay. All. The. Time. *Shudders* We may have lacked the in depth drop chart knowledge we have now, but anyone who actually played Version 2 would know what Section ID I was referring to if I said "Chainsawd Caves", and creating games in certain Section IDs was definitely something that was done.

The community mindset has been replaced with a competitive one. Picking a bad class will make some people not want to play with you, because they would rather play with somebody who's using a good class and thus contributes more to the team.

What game, that has been played this long, doesn't experience this? I mean, where is the large community of people centered around playing SMB casually? There is a handful of people devoted to the game still, and the entire run of the game can be beaten 3 times in the time it takes me to cook a freezer pizza. I'm not even saying I disagree with you. However that is certainly not the fault of BB. Had Version 2 been the final version of the game, and people played it on Ephinea, as they play BB today, we would be in the same place with a different meta. I am sure as someone who has played that version of the game since the server was taken down, you are employing different strategies, that you have polished over time, and watching an old video of people playing on DC would seem quaint XD.

 

[Harborer of Hope]

Oh Gods Cael-san...... SEE WHAT YOU DID!!!!???? LOL Welcome dear! You're gonna LOVE it here!!! <3

 

[Aleron Ives]

Yay! An actual discussion appears.

Time attack is certainly not the only way to have fun in this game, and actually being able to use some of the neat abilities Sega gave weapons in a viable way can be lots of fun.

I'm talking about actual challenge/difficulty. Defeating V2 monsters feels like an impressive feat, because they require multiple combos to fell and can dish out significant damage before they do. V3 monsters can often be CKed and don't get to put up a fight at all, so the game lacks the same sense of accomplishment as V2.

This range of weapons also allows many characters to employ strategies that can overcome their weaknesses. My racaseal on BB can solo PW4 fairly cleanly, using the diverse weapon set available.

Try doing it with a class that doesn't have Freeze Trap, Frozen Shooter, and Snow Queen. V3 gameplay relies too heavily on instant death that can only be avoided by incapacitating enemies. There's nothing wrong with this in theory, except that certain classes get all of the available options, while other classes get none of them and are basically screwed.

the exciting gameplay loop in Version 2 of: Force Buffs team and Debuffs enemies --> Rest of team hits things with Imperial Pick and Red Handgun using N H H combos gets stale.

Yes, you're quite right. I have to admit that I haven't subscribed to that depressing meta in almost a decade, since I fixed the V2 drop rates in 2009 as best I could so that people would for the first time be able to use all of the equipment the game has to offer. A strictly vanilla experience is extremely narrow, indeed.

Also as an aside how screwed were rangers in version 2? They may be godly now, but the only reliably findable weapon in Version 2 for rangers was Red handgun.

Honestly, I think Sega broke Ultimate Mine as an attempt to make Rangers somewhat relevant on V2. "The enemies don't fall down or flinch anymore, so now you have to attack from a distance! Useless Rangers problem solved!" Thanks, Segac.

Legitimate Sranks filled some gaps but were only actually viable with force support.

I fixed S-Rank stats, too. ^^;

I would disagree that techniques were valuable on version 2.

I meant that having Techniques was more valuable, because SDJZ was mandatory. It's merely icing on the pwn cake in V3, as androids do just fine without Techniques in most areas because of the nerfed monster stats.

Most people didn't want to play quests since as you point out NO RARE ITEMS DROP IN QUESTS.

Yeah, but the default rates are so shit that rares don't drop in freeplay, either, so IME people are happy to play quests once your team is ready.

What game, that has been played this long, doesn't experience this?

The V2 community today is still just as laid back as it has always been, and IMO it's because of the game engine. The TA mindset never took root in V2, because the game is just too hard. You can't create a compelling TA experience when it takes so long to fell a single wave of enemies. I would also credit the fact that the game draws an older crowd of gamers who aren't, for lack of a better term, part of the e-sports generation that thinks everything is a competition. People just play the game for fun, even today.

I am sure as someone who has played that version of the game since the server was taken down, you are employing different strategies, that you have polished over time, and watching an old video of people playing on DC would seem quaint XD.

Watching people playing DC a week ago seems quaint by V3 standards.

 

[GHOSTS]

Why are mommy and daddy fighting?

 

[Sodaboy]

Why are mommy and daddy fighting?

Because they’re both nerds. (Said in the most non-offensive way possible!)

 

[Harborer of Hope]

Why are mommy and daddy fighting?

Heheh, No One is fighting or arguing dearest....Just a little Sparring between loved ones. Besides, mew is Elated that our old vets are being so vocal and passionate! *Gets everyone Moar Popcorn!* =3

 

[equestriancitizen]

Yay! An actual discussion appears.

I'm talking about actual challenge/difficulty. Defeating V2 monsters feels like an impressive feat, because they require multiple combos to fell and can dish out significant damage before they do. V3 monsters can often be CKed and don't get to put up a fight at all, so the game lacks the same sense of accomplishment as V2.

you can ck the entire game (v2) with imp pick rmg rhg, how is this diverse or promote class/play variety. name a mob that can't be ck'd outside of bosses. tbh bosses are only marginally slower too.

the only reason ppl don't ta v2 is because it really boils down to these three weapons, not enough variety. the game has been solved and it would take few runs in everything to min max all quests. all v2 is missing is good players to get the times and actually play efficiently, that's all it needs to solve the game and get maxed times. there are no good players on v2 to get these times so the times haven't been gotten. that simple.

that being said it is fun, i mess around with the game when i'm visiting my parents' house, it's in the basement and is fun to screw around with. i agree that having a laid back and chill community is important. if ta isn't the focus that's fine but doesn't change the underlying reality of the game. gameplay choices don't equal the underlying reality of the game's meta.

 

[Chuckleface]

The entry level to Ultimate on DC is definitely steeper than nowadays. With all that said I will tell a little story about my HUmar who made it to Ultimate mode on DCv2. First off on DCv2 I am offline only, and I usually would do every quest available in each difficulty. Once I did I would then run each respective area to finish it. Well he finally made it to Ultimate, I wanted to test things out so I quickly went down to forest 1, went to attack with w/e I was using at the time and... Thwap! My weapon did nothing, and I got hit. I found that none of my weapons would do anything to the mobs except for Techs. So I went through many runs spamming techs til I finally found my first Ancient Saber so I could actually hit things.

In BB, I enter in Ult for the first time on a character, I pew pew, they die, loot.. So yay?