Were any changes made to make the life of Force users easier in Ult?

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the_importer

the_importer

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With all the changes made on these servers, was anything done to make the life of Force users easier for Ultimate?

EDIT: Since I believe that most people who replied either have not played Ult using a Force or have not played in a long time, I decided to have fun in Sandbox mode by maxing out (Lv, Important Stats, Mag, Techs) a HUmar and FOnewearl and giving them S Ranks Gear.

EDIT2:

Now tell me, does this seem balanced to you?



 
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No changes made here effect gameplay aside from a possibly few minor things such as HUney clio, hit RM, hit Girasole, type weapons, blizzard buff.

Outside of these things (and maybe an item or two I'm missing) everything is vanilla in gameplay. Most changes are purely qol or aesthetical.

Force however in vanilla is very strong and better than most classes early ultimate (unless your twinked) and they are also far superior to solo a lot than many classes. Just gotta keep at it and you will get used to it/better.

Anything you are struggling with in particular?
 
I thought the blizzard special weapon buff was removed actually due to it having a side affect of making normal freeze from gibarta and rabarta buffed as well?
 
Rune said:
I thought the blizzard special weapon buff was removed actually due to it having a side affect of making normal freeze from gibarta and rabarta buffed as well?
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The initial buff was 20%>80% to be the same as Arrest and yes it did cause this side effect, but later this was resolved separately and blizzard is now at 60% iirc without the barta techs being broken.
 
Spuz said:
No changes made here effect gameplay aside from a possibly few minor things such as HUney clio, hit RM, hit Girasole, type weapons, blizzard buff.

Outside of these things (and maybe an item or two I'm missing) everything is vanilla in gameplay. Most changes are purely qol or aesthetical.

Force however in vanilla is very strong and better than most classes early ultimate (unless your twinked) and they are also far superior to solo a lot than many classes. Just gotta keep at it and you will get used to it/better.

Anything you are struggling with in particular?
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Well I solo a lot with the One Player Quests and Principal Quests. A long time ago, on another free server, I was up to over Lv120 and many areas including Ruins were almost impossible without gobbling down 40 Trifluids per floor. Meanwhile, a Hunter at the same level can handle Ultimate with little to no issues and doesn't need to warp to P2 every 10 minutes spend 35 000 Meseta in order to be able to fight.

So yeah, this game has always screamed unbalanced for Force users.
 
I could only see this happening if you have a terrible mag and have a fixed loadout of Glide Divine, Lieutenant Mantle, and Rupika.

For a solo player. You can stun lock and kill almost everything in Ruins without issue as long as you switch between elemental boosts accordingly. Demons can usually handle the problematic enemies where HP + resists make techs unappealing. Not exactly optimal but Jellen can make it difficult for mobs to kill you if needed.

Personally I almost (not never cuz I'm not a good FO) have to go back for fluids but all four of my forces make crazy meseta in solo anyway, so generally a non-issue.

This isn't V2
 
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In my runs, both solo and with a group, the 80-early 100s were rough as a Force because of the enemies that could one shot me, my general lack of contribution with my low damage, and as you said the inconvenience of having to constantly run back to the shop. The money doesn't matter much in Ult since there are lots of items you can pick up off the ground that sell for a lot.

The TP/Fluid issue gets resolved once you have gear that increases your tech damage, which makes your TP use more efficient, and precious Adept unit to reduce your TP use. The low HP issue goes away after while once your level gets higher. Most of the more dangerous attacks in this game do a fixed amount of damage, ignoring DEF and resistances (except for EDK in the case of Megid), so once you're out of one shot range they become more manageable.

I will say I suffered a lot as a Force when I started Ultimate, but I also took a lot of things for granted. For instance, After playing FO so long I always loved rooms full of Satelite Lizards and Yowies since they were free EXP as I spammed Gifoie. When I began leveling Hunter and ESPECIALLY Ranger, the same enemies are now a chore. Or how with Forces you can afford to get hit a lot as long as you don't die since you can just Resta yourself back to full HP. Leveling up my RAcast I was constantly running out of mates and needing to go back for more. This is especially true if you run around with Berserk specials.

Right now my FOnewm is at level 195, which is the highest level I've had a character at without the aid of an Action Replay, and it wasn't until very recently that I started to appreciate this game's balance.
 
the_importer said:
Well I solo a lot with the One Player Quests and Principal Quests. A long time ago, on another free server, I was up to over Lv120 and many areas including Ruins were almost impossible without gobbling down 40 Trifluids per floor. Meanwhile, a Hunter at the same level can handle Ultimate with little to no issues and doesn't need to warp to P2 every 10 minutes spend 35 000 Meseta in order to be able to fight.

So yeah, this game has always screamed unbalanced for Force users.
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I'm not entirely sure if you played the same game as this simply isn't the case. Providing you're playing in One Person, you're not going to have a hard time soloing as a force outside of Episode 2 providing you know what you're doing (basically, spam Ra techs, don't spam Gifoie! Common newbie mistake), in fact Force is much stronger than the other options, especially in terms of effort:results.

In multiplayer, techs can be good, or hit and miss, but you mostly play as a more battlemage type character rather than pure techs there, as some resistances are too high on enemies, and other mechanics make tech spam detrimental to the team.

Hunter at level 120 is absolutely going to struggle in the later areas alone in Ultimate as well unless you're fully kitted out, as they'll lack the HP/ATP etc to do things cleanly, unless HUcast I suppose.

Anyway, Force is fine, but it's important to remember that Forces don't play as intuitively as you might expect in Ultimate in PSO.
 
What has been bothering me is fonewm. Passive buff unarmed increases cast speed. The ultimate tech nuke weapon Psycho Wand will add +30% Ra dmg. Its been many years since Ive tested the dps difference but if I recall correctly; it was negligible. That has to feel just awful if you finally get your ultimate weapon and you dont get an dps increase.
 
kamakazy07 said:
What has been bothering me is fonewm. Passive buff unarmed increases cast speed. The ultimate tech nuke weapon Psycho Wand will add +30% Ra dmg. Its been many years since Ive tested the dps difference but if I recall correctly; it was negligible. That has to feel just awful if you finally get your ultimate weapon and you dont get an dps increase.
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Using the weapons to boost your damage is far superior to barehand casting. You clear stuff way faster in both solo and multi. Pwand is definitely recommended. There are only a few situations in which you would use barehand for speed:

1. At the end of tech combos, for example: say you are in solo and you're doing 4x rafoie with pwand on some enemy, you might only need to have cast 3x rafoie on this particular enemy with it equipped and 1x without (because the last hit is low enough not to need the boost to kill)

2. Pre-fire such as gifoie in multi: You can spam barehand a ton of gifoie before a spawn (EFR weak enemies like canadines, lizards etc) to stack up the amount of gifoie in the room, barehand allows more casts within a small timeframe, then as an enemy spawns you would equip your Magical Piece (or fire staff agni) and all the damage boosts will then apply to all the prefired gifoe's damage as it hits the enemy.

3. Can stunlock some enemies barehand.

4. To break Boxes with techs.

5. You are solo and feeling lazy/in VH and twinked.

6. Something I am probably missing. [Insert Here]
 
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Spuz said:
Using the weapons to boost your damage is far superior to barehand casting. You clear stuff way faster in both solo and multi. Pwand is definitely recommended. There are only a few situations in which you would use barehand for speed:

1. At the end of tech combos, for example: say you are in solo and you're doing 4x rafoie with pwand on some enemy, you might only need to have cast 3x rafoie on this particular enemy with it equipped and 1x without (because the last hit is low enough not to need the boost to kill)

2. Pre-fire such as gifoie in multi: You can spam barehand a ton of gifoie before a spawn (EFR weak enemies like canadines, lizards etc) to stack up the amount of gifoie in the room, barehand allows more casts within a small timeframe, then as an enemy spawns you would equip your Magical Piece (or fire staff agni) and all the damage boosts will then apply to all the prefired gifoe's damage as it hits the enemy.

3. Can stunlock some enemies barehand.

4. To break Boxes with techs.

5. You are solo and feeling lazy/in VH and twinked.

6. Something I am probably missing. [Insert Here]
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Thanks for some insight, not playing a force myself I just have some basic numbers to run. The wiki doesn't mention the cast speed unequipped, is it 20%?

What I was thinking was; a base 500dmg rafoie casted 10times would be 5,000. If boosted by 30% it would be 6,500damage. Vs unequipped speed would be casted 12 times which would be 6,000 damage. So 6500 vs 6000. That is far from a 30% dps increase.
 
kamakazy07 said:
Thanks for some insight, not playing a force myself I just have some basic numbers to run. The wiki doesn't mention the cast speed unequipped, is it 20%?

What I was thinking was; a base 500dmg rafoie casted 10times would be 5,000. If boosted by 30% it would be 6,500damage. Vs unequipped speed would be casted 12 times which would be 6,000 damage. So 6500 vs 6000. That is far from a 30% dps increase.
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Male characters save 3 frames when casting techniques bare handed.

For lower numbers of casts, unequipped may be better because it could be the same number of techniques cast as using a weapon. But as things take longer to kill, the general trend is that using a tech boosting weapon is better (particularly when playing in multi).

For mixed spawns, you can even find various combos where you either start or stop with a weapon equipped. Sometimes you can even find mixups that are like this for a single spawn of Gorans and Pyro Gorans in Ultimate One Person Mode:
  1. Barehand Rafoie x2
  2. Psycho Wand Rafoie x1
  3. Swap to Rabarta merge
  4. Psycho Wand Rabarta x1
  5. Barehand Rabarta x3
 
You're new, so you can't know it, but people posting in this thread like Ender are very experienced, long-time players. Don't assume the people that answer you are clueless.

I don't think your videos are a good comparison. Not only are you using Psycho Wand while casting Simple Techs with FOnewearl (Psycho Wand boosts RA techniques, so its worthless using it when casting Simple Techs) you are also not using a Merge like Barta Merge for this comparison. Instead you're using Safety Heart which does not give you any benefits whatsoever in this situation. Did you use Congeal Cloak as your armor? If not, what did you use for these tests?

Forces are also more viable against groups of monsters. Your videos show each character facing off against a singular enemy.

It's hard to take these videos serious.
 
I did this on a sandbox account with no max stats and the wrong armor/shield to counter your video. Also the wrong techs sometimes too because I can't play on keyboard anymore...and I didn't really set up the quick menu either...on second thought don't judge me


also I'm not waiting 30 minutes for this clip to process so looool sorry if it grainy
 
CTB said:
I did this on a sandbox account with no max stats and the wrong armor/shield to counter your video. Also the wrong techs sometimes too because I can't play on keyboard anymore...and I didn't really set up the quick menu either...on second thought don't judge me


also I'm not waiting 30 minutes for this clip to process so looool sorry if it grainy
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I added another video where I used a Summit Moon and Barta Merge like you did, still doesn't hit has hard as you. Were you playing in Normal game or One Player Game?
 
CTB said:
I did this on a sandbox account with no max stats and the wrong armor/shield to counter your video. Also the wrong techs sometimes too because I can't play on keyboard anymore...and I didn't really set up the quick menu either...on second thought don't judge me
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I did this but with a level 99(!) FOnewearl who I got to do 594 damage to a Delsaber with Barta. I could've gone higher, but I figured it'd have been cheating since it'd use an off-meta mat plan.

Threads like this are good for something, I guess.
 
I was using Ignition Cloak and Rabarta merge with no mats and a dumpy mag. I did use one Adept+V801 though...I was gonna record a full Ruins 1 until I realized my controller wasn't set up with sandbox. Only took a few minutes of keyboarding for me to go yepthat'lldo

IDK why you would want to nuke like that in multi-mode; it was single player. You can get similar results if you wanna run solo multi-mode for whatever reason (gamecube throwbacks???) but Chaos Sorc and Dark Bringer will be much more of an annoyance without proper gear.
 
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