PSO2 drop style questionnaire for the community

Varista

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I've been taking opinions and polls around several places both publicly and privately around the subject of PSO2 style drops. In these questionnaires and polls I asked the following:

1. Would you play Blue Burst if PSO2 drop style was not implemented?
2. If PSO2 drop style was removed tomorrow, would you continue to play despite the QoL loss?
3. Does your enjoyment of the game hinge on PSO2 drop style or not?

I also asked people that if their answer to question 1 and 2 was a no, that they explain why however they wanted. I found that the majority of the people I asked these questions to had a somewhat common view on the matter.

I'd like to ask you guys the same set of questions:

1. Would you play Blue Burst if PSO2 drop style was not implemented?
2. If PSO2 drop style was removed tomorrow, would you continue to play despite the QoL loss?
3. Does your enjoyment of the game hinge on PSO2 drop style or not?

If you'd like to, also explain why you feel this way, I'd truly like to know how necessary PSO2 drop style is to the game.
 
1. Yes. People who used to play pso back in the days didn't have this option.
2. Yes. Quality of life is subjective.
3. No. In fact, I never turn it on and everyone who used to play with me were surprised they had so many more drops.
If you don't need an item and it drops, someone else has the chance to pick it up.
The problem is mostly with greedy people hoarding to resell, but you choose who you play with.

TLDR;
Enabling pso2 dropstyle just hides the fact you are playing with dicks.
#BluePillLife
 
I'm not sure how this aligns with your three questions, but I would stick to sandbox. At this point I'm interested in high hit/very rare stuff; making it political (at best) who gets a drop would make me either solo or not bother hunting. I enjoy PSO with or without drops, but if they're enabled I don't want to be fighting over them.

Even among friends it would be hard to decide what to do if your party gets something valuable. Are you forced to auction and split the value? Do you give your hit HS to one RA and tell the other "ok you can have the next one"?

PSO2 drops with DAR reduced by the number of players in your party would be a lot more palatable to me
 
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1. Yah... Buuuuuuut...
2. Yah..
3. I mean it does help a lot. I believe PSO2 drops is the way to go. It works a lot better than vanilla. It’s kinda dumb that if you are in a party full of random people, the person who gets the Uber drop is the one with the closest proximity. The vanilla style would definitely cause a lot more conflict for an already relatively small community. Even if it may seem not to be optimal, the more suitable option would be to lower the rates rather than going back to vanilla drop style. PSO2 style itself is fine. The drop rates, however, were never perfect to began with. To fix the problem would be to fix the drop rates... but it would be impossible to make a perfectly balanced game. So my answer is... naw. The game is enjoyable because it’s a fun game. However, PSO2 drops makes it more enjoyable and welcoming then the original design.
 
1. Yes. I debate turning PSO2 style off myself on most parties I create but don't because it seems meta around here and that doing so would create a hiccup of confusion in the party.

2. Yes. I think back to my split-screen days and there was something nice about seeing the variety of everyone's drops and then having to share based on what each character needed. Made the game more cooperative and less like 4 people playing solo, and it wasn't too hard to come up with a system for doling out specials and deciding who got what rares.

3. Since you're often online with random people you don't know too well, PSO2 style drops may be the more enjoyable/peaceful option overall, and I like at least having the option for it, but I think the best thing for me would be to have the PSO2 style drop rate reduced proportionally to the number of players to more closely mimic the vanilla experience, because it feels like there's a bloated amount of drops with it right now. I think it's definitely not balanced with Classic style in terms of drop quantity anyway.
 
Every time I see PSO2 drop style I immediately think of PSZero as that was the first game to finally have client-side drops rather than share drops. But most would call it PSO2 drop style anyway.

So back when Schthack push out the public release of SchtBB (Late2006) he would implement the familiar system of PSU drops styles. Finder, Order, and Random. And yes, you can pick which style you want for common items and rare items. Surprise ... most would end up going with Finder instead. This leads to endless amount of folks creating topics how their supposed "rare" should of belong to them ... even though they could of picked Order or Random option. You end up being "greedy" on picking Finder, only then to be surprised that your other teammates are also "greedy" too?

Finder=Classic mode, whoever gets it first, keeps it (or not)
Order=Who ever picks up the item/rare will transport the item/rare to first player in the party, next player 2, then player 3, etc.
Random=Most popular in PSU from what I've experienced for PC/PS2 server (or maybe a default selection), who ever picks up the item/rare will randomly transport that to anyone in the party

Remember players camping right at that boss item/rare drop and mashing the button hoping they'll get it first? Remember seeing players dropping their combat mode and engaging treasure hunting mode AKA "you-snooze-you-lose?" I'll never forget the day I got my very first PD on day 3 for SchtBB and the player next to me would go nuts to give me any trashy 9 star weapons just for that single PD I got.

1. Would you play Blue Burst if PSO2 drop style was not implemented?
Yeah sure, but then I have to be more aggressive on snatching rares then focusing on combat like the old days. Also be prepared to play with friends/guildmates more than randoms. Finally see more and more locked passworded parties.
2. If PSO2 drop style was removed tomorrow, would you continue to play despite the QoL loss?
Not gonna lie, I'd love to see that and see how the community would react. It'll just give me more reasons to solo instead. So yes, I would still play.
3. Does your enjoyment of the game hinge on PSO2 drop style or not?
Well even on this server you'll still see folks complaining on how "that rare should of belong to me." As for me, I think it's great to see less and less complaints overall so I feel PSO2 drop style is pretty effective. I used to play a lot PSOGC more than PSOBB back in the old days anyway, so I don't really care what drop system I would deal with.

---
I still think it's interesting on how Japanese players used to deal with rares items back in the old days. Rather than keep it to oneself, they'll drop whatever they cannot equip on Pionner2 and leave it for other players that can actually equip it.


I think with these recent years with add-ons ... wait-I'm-gonna-stop-talking-now-sorry.
 
PSO2 drop style is the feature helps the game the most, its effect to the community cannot be summarized from a paper but it do helps.
 
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It has taken years for people to reach "endgame" gear quality with PSO2 drop style legitimately. Every other server was boosted artificially by massive cheating (including Scht pre-wpie), donations, or both.

It would have taken us 3 to 4 times longer to get where we are with PSO1 drop style. In a 100% legit environment, the game is not rewarding enough to play on PSO1 drop style in multiplayer. I would say it hinges on nearly unplayable if we're assuming you want to actually find something once in awhile.

1. No
2. No
3. Yes

Why are you asking this? I feel like you're just trying to stir the pot.

Edit: Never mind. You're a dev I see. I get it. Sorry for getting defensive xD
 
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It has taken years for people to reach "endgame" gear quality with PSO2 drop style legitimately. Every other server was boosted artificially by massive cheating (including Scht pre-wpie), donations, or both.

It would have taken us 3 to 4 times longer to get where we are with PSO1 drop style. In a 100% legit environment, the game is not rewarding enough to play on PSO1 drop style in multiplayer. I would say it hinges on nearly unplayable if we're assuming you want to actually find something once in awhile.

1. No
2. No
3. Yes

Why are you asking this? I feel like you're just trying to stir the pot.

Edit: Never mind. You're a dev I see. I get it. Sorry for getting defensive xD
Y....YEAH! What HE SAID! Nya~! XD!
 
1. Would you play Blue Burst if PSO2 drop style was not implemented?
Yes
2. If PSO2 drop style was removed tomorrow, would you continue to play despite the QoL loss?
Yes
3. Does your enjoyment of the game hinge on PSO2 drop style or not?
Yes

Shared loot is toxic. Makes people worry more about getting the drops fast than killing enemies efficiently. Makes people bitter about others taking the loot. Makes people use Hunters more than any other class. And also makes people play alone to ensure that they loot whats dropped.

The only reason I would keep playing in this server is because I already invested 120~ hours in my RAmar.
 
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1. Would you play Blue Burst if PSO2 drop style was not implemented?
Yes
2. If PSO2 drop style was removed tomorrow, would you continue to play despite the QoL loss?
Yes
3. Does your enjoyment of the game hinge on PSO2 drop style or not?
Yes

Shared loot is toxic. Makes people worry more about getting the drops fast than killing enemies efficiently. Makes people bitter about others taking the loot. Makes people use Hunters more than any other class. And also makes people play alone to ensure that they loot whats dropped.

The only reason I would keep playing in this server is because I already invested 120~ hours in my RAmar.
Siiiiiiiickiiiiiies~! =3!
 
1. No.
2. No.
3. Yes.

Sure, I used to play with shared drops in the past, but that's in the past. These days, I want to play a game and not have to worry about things like trolls or loot snatchers or anything like that. It's better to not have to work on honour systems, and just have the game take care of all of that by itself.

All modern games employ this kind of drop system now for a reason, because it makes it more fair for everyone, and ultimately more enjoyable. Games were not better in the past.

If anything, the question you should be asking is not whether it's a good system or if people want it (because, being a server admin and engaging with the community, it's a vast, vast majority of yes, despite naysayers or contrarians who bang on about "how it used o be"), but rather if you think the PSO2 drop system should be true individual drops (i.e. each person rolls their own drop), or if you used a shared drop system, but all items are dropped separately (so if a rare drops, everyone gets this rare).

Both systems have their advantages and work the same way in terms of global averages, but ultimately improve upon the flawed system of shared drops.

PSO2 drops with DAR reduced by the number of players in your party would be a lot more palatable to me

We did this for a while actually but it doesn't have the effect you think. It actually causes people to solo more, as they see other people joining as a reduction to their drop rate, and people generally don't like that (other games employ a boost in drop rates with more players, rather than a reduction).

When people did play together, they almost always avoided having a 4th person in the party, as they felt the reduction was "too strong". This isn't really behaviour you want to cultivate.

If PSO2 drops were to have a balancing mechanic, it should be drop rates as a whole, not a punishment for playing with more players.
 
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If anything, the question you should be asking is not whether it's a good system or if people want it (because, being a server admin and engaging with the community, it's a vast, vast majority of yes, despite naysayers or contrarians who bang on about "how it used o be"), but rather if you think the PSO2 drop system should be true individual drops (i.e. each person rolls their own drop), or if you used a shared drop system, but all items are dropped separately (so if a rare drops, everyone gets this rare).

Both systems have their advantages and work the same way in terms of global averages, but ultimately improve upon the flawed system of shared drops.

So which two systems do you mean exactly @Matt? PSO1 vs. PSO2 drops, which I think sounds more obvious, or current PSO2 drops vs. modified PSO2 drops where it's like the current PSO2 drops system except that players receive their drops based on their Section IDs (SIDs) rather than based on the host's SID?

Based on the answer given with 1. No, 2. No, and 3. Yes; I guess you were going for the latter comparison of drops, right? I would like to know what kinds of advantages and disadvantages you are talking about in terms of global averages as well since that sounds abstract to me.

I can understand how PSO2 drops are a step in the right direction since nobody wants to have players snatching the drops, but it's funny to see how the server decides how many times the host gets put in the back of the line when everybody else gets the drop that the host made the party for in the first place. Oh well, that's a feature, not a bug - Not to mention that the way that this server has implemented how the drops are set either, which is by a hierarchy of players that joined first where the player that joins last is the last candidate to host the drops based on their SID only if the first three players have left the room before another three players join after this fourth player joins the party.

I'm not sure how other servers distribute drops, but that's what I recollect for how it works on Ephinea. I'm not sure how it works on Schthack, but I suppose @Zues can let us know about that since I'm curious about that.

Edit: I still think this is a funny example of how the drops work on this server.
 
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Why are you asking this? I feel like you're just trying to stir the pot.

Edit: Never mind. You're a dev I see. I get it. Sorry for getting defensive xD

Mostly curiosity. I've been wondering this sort of thing for a while; the game has naturally evolved so much that I wanted to see what the overall community thought regarding this fact.

We did this for a while actually but it doesn't have the effect you think. It actually causes people to solo more, as they see other people joining as a reduction to their drop rate, and people generally don't like that (other games employ a boost in drop rates with more players, rather than a reduction).

When people did play together, they almost always avoided having a 4th person in the party, as they felt the reduction was "too strong". This isn't really behaviour you want to cultivate.

If PSO2 drops were to have a balancing mechanic, it should be drop rates as a whole, not a punishment for playing with more players.

This is true actually. People witness a change in DAR to the negative when 2 people are in the lobby and dont want to even worry about it. It essentially just eliminates the desire to play in two man groups and four man groups, at least on other servers.

I'm not sure how other servers distribute drops, but that's how I recollect for it works on Ephinea. I'm not sure how it works on Schthack, but I suppose @Zues can let us know about that since I'm curious about that.

Edit: I still think this is a funny example of how the drops work on this server.

Mind you I was not the one that implemented PSO2 drops into Schthack, I came after the post-wipe Developer's had implemented stuff. From what I can gather though, the host is most likely to find something in a 4-man group on Schthack; but DAR is also handled differently too. If I was to change it, I would make it how it is more on Ephinea (but doing so would cause a second self destruction within the server itself lol). For posterity sake, the way it works now is that 1p on PSO2 mode is 100% DAR, 2p on PSO2 mode is 80% DAR, 3p on PSO2 mode is 110% DAR, and 4p on PSO2 mode is 130% DAR (going off last estimates from our last Developer, Tormentium). I'm not sure how they managed to screw that up, but essentially 4p groups are incentivized even more, which WOULD be good, but it just makes things super easy to find. Would I change it? Absolutely I would. Can I change it? Yeah, for sure. But will I change it? Truthfully, I can't.

I say I cant because people are too attached to it. But what I do know is that with our Vanilla game type, changing it wouldn't be too bad, and would be probably more accepted than not. I made this thread to mostly figure out how most people felt about PSO2 mode in general and what 'removing' it from the game would most likely mean for the game as a whole, not just any server. I was curious to find out if success on any platform regarding Blue Burst hinged on PSO2 mode being available or not. For the most part, the answers overall (not just here, but everywhere) seems to be split mostly even.

Thanks for the replies everybody.
 
1. Would you play Blue Burst if PSO2 drop style was not implemented? - I would! Without it is good enough.
2. If PSO2 drop style was removed tomorrow, would you continue to play despite the QoL loss? - I would, though I'd definitely miss the ease of play
3. Does your enjoyment of the game hinge on PSO2 drop style or not? - I'd say it's a huge plus. I like having it around and it being optional is best overall, I think.
 
Do you really want No skill, just Macro to come back? lol.

1. Would you play Blue Burst if PSO2 drop style was not implemented?

I did back in the day, and could again, i usually win getting drops outside of against macro spammers.

2 & 3. If PSO2 drop style was removed tomorrow, would you continue to play despite the QoL loss?

Probably not tbh, I'm mostly over Psobb as a whole and only come back for days at at a time out of boredom, making a tired games shitty drops shittier again in groups would just make me lose interest and go back to older versions of PSO.
 
We did this for a while actually but it doesn't have the effect you think. It actually causes people to solo more, as they see other people joining as a reduction to their drop rate, and people generally don't like that (other games employ a boost in drop rates with more players, rather than a reduction).
Yeah I could see that. I guess I was trying to say: if we had to move toward vanilla rates, I'd still prefer if the game decided who got drops. Reduced drops I can deal with, a free-for-all for anything decent would make me stick to locked rooms
 
So which two systems do you mean exactly @Matt
Missed it completely.

The current system is: Everyone gets individual drops. Everyone rolls their own separate drops.

The other system I mean is: The game rolls drops for each enemy, and each drop is then duplicated to all players.

Both of them are completely balanced, even though the latter sounds like it would be ridiculously overpowered (it's not). Each method works the same on average when it comes to hunting for something for everyone and the overall game economy.

In fact, I'd probably argue that the latter is actually better as then group hunts feel more like group hunts, and there's no feeling of "why is it dropping for everyone else except me!?"
This is true actually. People witness a change in DAR to the negative when 2 people are in the lobby and dont want to even worry about it. It essentially just eliminates the desire to play in two man groups and four man groups, at least on other servers.
I mean, it is a negative. Sure, your run is "faster", and as you play lots of runs your average rate over time is better, but people prefer to think of their hunts in runs rather than time.

Plus, if you're wanting to play many different things, you are essentially reducing your chance of getting things as you play all the content. You're just playing through the content faster.

i.e. Today I will play all the different MA4 series as my daily runs, then go do something else. By playing with others, I have less chance to get what I want with this setup. It shouldn't work like that.
 
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