Prevent use of Materials from quick menu

[Cookie]

...allow a couple of spaces for error margins ie -2 def mats until you have enough to complete

That's exactly what I do since eating a handful accidental mats on schtserv, always leaving a 5-10 mats gap until I can finish. Just learn from your mistakes and adept, no need for a change.

 

[Soly]

Also considering this, aren't normal mode materials and challenge mode materials separate entities in the database in the first place? Then it would be straightforward to simply change normal mode materials while not affecting cmode material.

They are not, they are the same in both modes.

Why not clone the base item of Materials in the database, copy paste those clones with the default functionality and replace the materials drop in the Challenge Mode drop tables with the cloned vanilla materials. Then change the normal mode materials to have the new functionality. Red box materials for normal mode, while the cmode materials stay the same as vanilla.

Something like that possible?

Not really, I'm almost 100% sure that the cloned materials won't work, so their functionality has to be added.
And then, as I said, making either a red box is unlikely to happen, and having to code in the mechanics of the original materials into the new ones is probably even more complicated than what I suggested about filtering them from the quick menu.

 

[Escher]

@Soly thanks for your responses.

My suggestion was only as a minor QoL thing. If it is troublesome to implement then by all means, let's end the discussion here.
Mods please lock topic.

 

[Ade]

no offense, and I understand the frustration when you fuck up your mats, but you guys are very close to talking about recontextualizing materials as a game mechanic for the sake of navigating a menu correctly. I think if there's a way to take mats out of the quick menu without screwing up the cmode menu, then that sounds dope and it should happen, but things like cheap incremental mat resets? nah man. you're responsible for your button presses.

I've never messed up any of my characters. However, Sega is responsible for creating a system in which you can accidentally and permanently screw up your character by pressing one wrong button. A truly stupid system by any measure of game design standard even for that time! Private Servers have done well to offer mat resets, and I agree that a full mat reset should come at the cost of losing all of those materials, but we need something other than this "all or nothing" solution.

Plus, I'm sure you really like those stackable grinders and materials in your bank, which is a remedy to another dumb choice on Sega's part...

 

[Eva]

Hopefully all of these changes I see in the suggestion forum don't end up happening, or by the time I come back to Ephinea for the summer it'll be Ron Popeil's Phantasy Star Online: Just set it and forget it.

Spoiler

..i'd play that

 

[Soly]

@Soly thanks for your responses.

My suggestion was only as a minor QoL thing. If it is troublesome to implement then by all means, let's end the discussion here.
Mods please lock topic.

I was saying the opposite, that is technically possible harder than just giving the current mats a 9 stars but not THAT hard, given some time to look into the game's code.
I actually might look into such thing myself.

 

[Ade]

I don't know that we need to end the topic. I think if there's enough interest in having an option to remove 1 or 2 used Materials for a small fee in PDs, it should be considered. I think your idea is excellent, @Escher

 

[Knowl]

I've never messed up any of my characters. However, Sega is responsible for creating a system in which you can accidentally and permanently screw up your character by pressing one wrong button. A truly stupid system by any measure of game design standard even for that time! Private Servers have done well to offer mat resets, and I agree that a full mat reset should come at the cost of losing all of those materials, but we need something other than this "all or nothing" solution.

again, no offense, but I just plain disagree. yes, it's a mistake with serious consequence, but one with a number of gameplay workarounds already existing in game that other people have already taken the time to describe. the brutality's kind of the point, whatever you think of its quality from a game design perspective, and that makes it part of PSO, so in my view it needs to remain intact.

Plus, I'm sure you really like those stackable grinders and materials in your bank, which is a remedy to another dumb choice on Sega's part...

i do. it's also not really relevant, because we're talking about something else.

 

[fishhao]

Just dont have Hamhands, hakuna matat

 

[Ade]

Yes, this is a separate thing from stackable grinders, but it's relevant because the Ephinea devs addressed a Sega design choice that everyone agrees was poor. I don't understand how a person can approve of stackable grinders, or even PSO2 style drops, and then turn around and say the harsh material usage system is "part of the game that shouldn't change." The vast majority of other RPGs have a respec system that is much less draconian than simply starting over or losing all of the materials you've already used.

It's this sort of arbitrariness that makes it hard to argue against anyone here.

"Oh, I like Ephinea's fix for problem X, but we shouldn't change Y because clearly Sega intended it to be that way."

Sometimes I feel like people on this server disagree with ideas simply because they didn't think of them. Also, although everyone is entitled to an opinion, individuals who rarely play but simply like to be contrarian should really ask themselves if they're showing true concern or if they simply get enjoyment from throwing gas on the fire. It's very vexing to see this.

Using today's standards (which is perfectly fine when you have a development team that can design by today's standards, so please refrain from arbitrarily objecting to this), the material system designed by Sega is objectively poor. If a major release RPG came out in this day and age without a respec system, or with a respec system that was extremely costly / devastating to use, it would lose major points for discouraging player creativity. Gamers have grown very aware of artificial difficulty and it irritates them.

If you actually think that someone at Sega plotted, "Yes, it would be good to have materials on the quick menu to punish someone for being careless," you're giving them way too much credit. They probably didn't even think about endgame building when they designed the game. The very existence of endgame HUcast and RAcast proves this further. And don't forget the lack of hit respite in Blue Burst 1P Ultimate that made certain monsters devastatingly powerful compared to their Multimode variants. Way to catch that one, Sega. At least Ephinea fixed that, too.

Sometimes I just want to throw my arms up in the air when people dig up the most asinine objections against common sense proposals. Why wouldn't anyone want this if it was doable? Because it would make people happier and not have to worry about losing a ton of time / wealth for pressing one wrong button? We have Hardcore mode for that already.

I must reiterate: I don't benefit from this at all. I won't be making new characters and my mat / mag plans are perfect for my existing characters. I have no dog in this fight, but I see a good idea getting torn to shreds by individuals who like to kill every single idea while fully enjoying the ones that have been implemented already. I wonder how many people objected to the Ep. 2 drop changes and now secretly enjoy them...? Hmm...

Also remember: I fully support the current "full mat reset" option. If you totally screw up your character and want to fix it, then you deserve to lose the mats. However, the solution proposed here is for an entirely different problem. If I have one blemish on my kitchen wall, I don't need to take a sledgehammer to the whole thing, for example.

 

[Aleron Ives]

Why wouldn't anyone want this if it was doable?

...because the time spent implementing it could be better spent fixing more important problems and/or adding more important features. Soly has already stated that there's no easy way to do this.

 

[Ade]

...because the time spent implementing it could be better spent fixing more important problems and/or adding more important features. Soly has already stated that there's no easy way to do this.

Yeah, there's no easy way to remove the materials from the quick menu in normal gameplay while leaving them in Cmode. I get that. So I'm saying add a quest or another feature to Gallon's Shop where you can remove one used material for one PD or 500k Meseta or something. I'm sure THAT would be much easier to implement.

If the Ephinea devs were to say, "This isn't enough of a priority to use our resources on it." I would understand and accept that. However, the argument that "Sega intended this" is bunk. We're talking about the same developers that decided four separate enemies needed to drop Storm Wand: Indra in Ultimate Pinkal VR Spaceship.

Anyway, I'm making way too many good points here (which will stand on their self-evident nature), and the last time I did that, I was put in "time out" for a few days, so I'd better shut up. Nothing like getting punished / picked on for arguing proficiently. Takes me back to the good old days.

 

[fishhao]

Then why dont you work on it if you think its easier? Or qedit something that makes it possible instead of having people do it for you for free?

Maybe you should know a few things.

1. This game is older than the age of consent now (in some jurisdictions)
2. You're not the only one who plays here and needs an easy game mode for clumsy finger movement.
3. Devs arent your pets. "The development staff usually do other things in their free time outside of developing for this server."
4. It's free so be happy with what you got.

PS. I dont think any of your suggestions got implemented which might SUGGEST you just have bad ideas.

 

[Knowl]

i don't really care all that much whether you think my opinion is arbitrary or contrarian, Ade, and i think it's pretty fucking disrespectful of you to make the assertion to be honest. if you want to have a discussion, let's have one. don't be a dick because i disagree with you from a perspective that you can't rationalize as objectively wrong.

cards on the table; i would like PSO as close to how it was back when i was a kiddo. i'm also aware that times move on and huge parts of PSO seem archaic and obtuse, and on a server that tries to be 'vanilla+', allowing scope for change and updates, we all have our own ideas of what is acceptably vanilla+ and what is out of scope. therefore it's important that we have these conversations if we all care about this old ass game. if you find it offensive that people don't sit with your particular view of how things should be, well, tough. that's the whole point of this forum.

sorry to the mods for taking this off-topic, but this guy is persistently taking the piss out of the suggestion forum, and i'm concerned we'll lose the chance to have these conversations.

 

[Rune]

the brutality's kind of the point

PSO's brutal man!
Its Totally metal!

1. This game is older than the age of consent now (in some jurisdictions)

They grow up so fast. Just yesterday they were having witch hunts for anyone carrying an uber.

2. You're not the only one who plays here and needs an easy game mode for clumsy finger movement.
3. Devs arent your pets. "The development staff usually do other things in their free time outside of developing for this server."

You really need to not put words in someone's mouth:

"I must reiterate: I don't benefit from this at all. I won't be making new characters and my mat / mag plans are perfect for my existing characters. I have no dog in this fight,"

I like how someone just wanting less bullshit in a game is being mocked for wanting things so called "easy"

4. It's free so be happy with what you got.

So many things wrong with this statement. Hint just because something is free doesn't mean it has the right to be bad or something.

i don't really care all that much whether you think my opinion is arbitrary or contrarian, Ade, and i think it's pretty fucking disrespectful of you to make the assertion to be honest. if you want to have a discussion, let's have one. don't be a dick because i disagree with you from a perspective that you can't rationalize as objectively wrong.

Truth be told I don't see Ade attacking people that much compared to others attacking him but whatever.

sorry to the mods for taking this off-topic, but this guy is persistently taking the piss out of the suggestion forum, and i'm concerned we'll lose the chance to have these conversations.

Yeah he is the only one that is doing this.

if they simply get enjoyment from throwing gas on the fire.

Totally guilty of this.

Granted trying to make people laugh as well but meh.

 

[Knowl]

8/10 memeing m8

 

[Rune]

I try my best man

 

[Retty]

this thread though.

 

[anime]

Good morning. > Everybody

 

[Eva]

Just use palette manager to minimize the need for the item quick menu. Or mat your characters up from the start. Or leave a cushion. Or don't pick them up. Or just...be careful? All suggestions take time to implement, however minimal, and this just seems like hand holding.

if a dev wanted to take a crack at this for fun, then sure. we'd probably be slightly better off. otherwise i'd rather see that time go into balancing the easter event etc etc.

Anyway, I'm making way too many good points here (which will stand on their self-evident nature), and the last time I did that, I was put in "time out" for a few days, so I'd better shut up. Nothing like getting punished / picked on for arguing proficiently. Takes me back to the good old days.

this is fucking gold. yeah, you weren't being a dick at all- you were just "making too many good points."