No Resta Grr - DF Users Grr - a neverending debate?

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Asking for permission to be able to use the things you found is a pretty wild solution to be honest.
 
Varista said:
Which at no point did I ever advocate for or suggest unlike the former.
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Let's not communicate at all. The force will keep resta-ing and hunter will equip and swing their DF w/ no explosion noises.

So we are back at communication is the best method. Cool, glad to have you back.
 
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If you expect the Force to not do something and dictate how they play. Especially, if that is a prerequisite to a particular play-style. Common sense would be ask.

I'd love to see anyone explain how they aren't dictating how the force is allowed to play. I'm floored by all the hoops I see people hop through to justify this. Because all the grunting, insults, guides, blacklisting, glitches, graphs and PowerPoint presentations are obviously a way better solution to get people on board with a particular play-style seems to be almost everyone's proposed solution! :P

Tell me that I'm wrong and explain why.
 
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Another new realization that debunks the dead horse argument:

If, after this many years of back and forth, we have one side that says there’s an issue and another side that says there isn’t an issue and people just need to do XYZ to get on board with it, and nobody budges, then that indicates a balance issue within the game that requires developer intervention. It is objectively an issue BECAUSE of the unending contention it raises. It’s time to stop the finger pointing and realize the developers need to get involved to resolve this.

OK Staff: This has been going on for ten years now. Is something going to be done to address this or not?
 
There will never be any /noresta unit, command, or anything as such in the main game.

Everyone can play as they like, try and have fun and when that fails, the blacklist ability is always there if it improves your time playing and keeps you civil against others. Police yourself and the only action that will be taken is when/if someone gets nasty and harasses someone personally.


Feel free to continue this thread as long as it remains up, but Staff owes no response, nor a fix to any long standing mechanic of the game.
 
Ade said:
Another new realization that debunks the dead horse argument:

If, after this many years of back and forth, we have one side that says there’s an issue and another side that says there isn’t an issue and people just need to do XYZ to get on board with it, and nobody budges, then that indicates a balance issue within the game that requires developer intervention. It is objectively an issue BECAUSE of the unending contention it raises. It’s time to stop the finger pointing and realize the developers need to get involved to resolve this.

OK Staff: This has been going on for ten years now. Is something going to be done to address this or not?
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I honestly don't see any problem here; I can see that you're trying to use this topic to shove your opinion down everyone's throats and force the staff to make a change that benefits you.
The world is full of situations involving two or more points of view; one must learn to coexist with the opinions of others, as not every situation will have a definitive solution that pleases everyone.
 
Ade said:
I really like this. The FO decides, and you go with it. They're already serving the party and taking a back seat to the big DPS hero trope, so it SHOULD be their choice. And it should have been from DAY ONE.

I think it's time we downplay this narrative that the HU decides.

The FO decides from now on. They're doing the unglamorous support work, so they should get to choose.

Let's start pushing this as the standard narrative going forward.

The next time I'm in a game and a HU says, "No Resta, please." I'm going to speak up and say, "Let's please allow the FO to decide, since they are serving us with their support."

It's time for HUs to stop assuming they are the party commander.

(I don't main FO, btw, so I don't have a dog in this fight. I just really think it was a good argument.)

Edit: See? Now the topic is breaking new ground and evolving. So all of you who say this is a dead horse are wrong. Narratives evolve and change over time. So let's stop it with the manufactured fatigue.
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As a HU main, I wholeheartedly concur.
 
Argajag said:
I would like to elaborate on this because it cleanly fits into different methods on a spectrum of varying efficiency.

In no particular order, some things players do all the time in public games to make it a little more efficient and easy on themselves & others:
  • Swapping to a melee weapon instead of attacking Lizards & Yowies frontally with a gun

  • Asking the party to group up for a Delbiter or Dorphon charging

  • Asking others to stay out of the EP4 boss cave because it would complicate the fight needlessly (Not as common these days thanks to the excellent DMC patch)

  • Waiting until they are frozen before attacking active EP2 Sinows such that they do not teleport around

  • Also in EP2, asking people not to gifoie Deldepths because it takes a long time to kill them that way - see Delbiter/Dorphon group ups as well

  • Directing people to act in various ways depending on quest (pipe here now, go this way, let's split up in Phantasmal World 1 etc)
Managing your own hitpoint pool is thus simply another example of playing a little more efficiently. I don't think it makes sense to separate it into its own category of "controlling the party" - is suggesting to group up for a delbiter charge not controlling how someone plays?

In short it ought to be up to the players to communicate and cooperate in this online game.



In my case yes I'm aware this has been a slapfight older than the forum we're posting on, but at the same time I have debate brain, so it cannot be helped.

I rationalize posting like this to myself by thinking it would also be nice if someone new read my posts & learn something instead of shutting down the idea that they can get better at the game too.



Brother what new information, which new perspective...?
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wtf is a “melee gun”
 
Well, that means the staff has changed their mind. In 2020, Ryan mentioned it was still on the table. So if that is no longer the case, then the discussion can be limited to “how can we get along?”

I think saying that nothing will ever be done about this while knowing that it’s going to continue to cause contention is a poor choice. Very disappointed in the apathy. I have no further interest in this topic now. Peace.
 
Server policy, game mechanics, common courtesy seem to point to the Force/Support decides in this particular case with flowing. Which is how it has always worked anyways, nothing changes at all other than clarification at this point.

Everyone is allowed to play the game how they want. If it's a prerequisite to a particular style for someones else to play a certain way, you gotta ask and they can decide if they want to or not. Communication, compromise, and teamwork is the path forward. Don't be a jerk! Do your best to accommodate where possible so everyone has a better time.
 
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As the OP i would like to take the liberty to post some closing words and ask for this thread to be closed afterwards.

I thank everyone who provided some insights, others might have missed or ideas, on how to handle uncomfortable situations surrounding DF.

As initially stated, DF is not the problem, its some players attitude towards it.

Communication is everything. And don't be rude while doing it. On both sides, in every situation.

If you cant find a compromise, there are only 2 solutions. The Blacklist or to play on Devaloka, where DF doesn't even exist.

Demanding a bandaid fix from staff is beyond reasoning. If they want to do something about it, they'll do it. If not, back to getting along as it should be. This would borderline enter "rebalancing" territory, which might be against Ephineas core philosophy.

If any talented LUA Addon Creator feels inspired by the idea of an Addon, that shows the range of support techs, it may actually be the solution we are looking for. I can only imagine how hard it would be to implement something like this for the normal field of view, but starting at the minimap may be way easier.

See y'all ingame.
 
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