No Resta Grr - DF Users Grr - a neverending debate?

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always cast resta on df users because nobody naturally expects to be able to open the menu to walk by enemies quicker

Argajag said:
shut up simp
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no way babe talking you up as better than me softens any potential offense caused by talking you up as better than someone else while i do ittttt

anyway marella i probably could have picked a better post of yours to respond to with that sentiment (and elaborated on it more) but all of your posts thus far have basically indicated a more limited understanding of the game than either myself, jc, or ade actually have, and just because random players don't employ an effective gameplay strategy doesn't mean it's not good, it just means they don't do it. most of the point i'm trying to make to you specifically is made in my tablepost (specifically the paragraph about hp management in general). if skills weren't worth learning because nobody uses them then nobody would ever develop any skills because that's... not how that works in general
 
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I suppose exploitative was a poor descriptor. I imagine the first person who figured it out probably had it proc unexpectedly and said, “Oh wow that was useful. I wonder if I could position my HP more effectively to make that happen more often?”

It was wrong for me to assume that anything I didn’t think of myself is exploitative. Again, I’m not very smart.

So yeah, point JC.

Edit: A major flaw of mine is that if I employ something I didn’t figure out myself, I stay annoyed at myself and the person who did figure it out forever. Because there’s no way I can unlearn it and go back to prove to myself that I would have eventually figured it out. So I have this self-imposed indebtedness forever that can’t be undone.

I had a similar thing happen when trying to beat the final boss of Elden Ring’s DLC. After beating my head against him for 100+ attempts and finally winning, I saw a Reddit post of someone who went into the fight and didn’t attack at all. They just studied his moveset for 10 attempts and then beat him more easily after learning it. And I was very annoyed with myself for not considering this and felt stupid. Still do.

So, anytime I self-Resta or SNS or menu walk, I feel like I didn’t earn it.

Hmm… this isn’t important to the topic at all. I’ll try to focus from here on out.
 
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Sundark said:
always cast resta on df users because nobody naturally expects to be able to open the menu to walk by enemies quicker

no way babe talking you up as better than me softens any potential offense caused by talking you up as better than someone else while i do ittttt

anyway marella i probably could have picked a better post of yours to respond to with that sentiment (and elaborated on it more) but all of your posts thus far have basically indicated a more limited understanding of the game than either myself, jc, or ade actually have, and just because random players don't employ an effective gameplay strategy doesn't mean it's not good, it just means they don't do it. most of the point i'm trying to make to you specifically is made in my tablepost (specifically the paragraph about hp management in general). if skills weren't worth learning because nobody uses them then nobody would ever develop any skills because that's... not how that works in general
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Wordy assumptions make you and your friends "better".

Gotcha
 
There is nothing wrong with DFing its extremely effective! Especially at high level of play. But... unless your Force(support) is willing to play ball it's all moot anyways. No amount of optimization, graphs, and/or lectures will change that. The force will decide if it's going to happen or not regardless of anyone's opinion. Newbies aren't going to know any of this either. So the culture needs to be ask permission to flow.
 
Nice somebody has the sense to get things back on topic~!

And yes of course its all about situational awareness really?

Play with you friends one way, but if in random lobby then read the room?
 
Ultimately, what all this boils down to is that nothing will ever change regarding the eternal "To DF or not to DF" war, barring Ephinea staff making an actual change to the game, which won't happen. Veterans will make arguments, new players will make arguments, and everyone in between, but discourse here will not have any measurable impact on the game itself.

Give it a few months, and we'll discuss this again.

The circle of life continues.
 
You shouldn't assume a change won't happen on this. It was very close to happening a number of years ago, and I would contend that removing DMC or allowing for Divine Punishment to be used 24/7 are equally "game changers" in that regard. So it's not anywhere outside of the scope of possibility.

It would make sense to either:

A. Make an adjustment so that incoming healing can be decided at the player level. But only allow for it to be switched on / off while on Pioneer 2 or in the lobby so it can't be toggled on/off at will. That would be way too good, or...

B. Give RAs and FOs a new mechanic that gives them equal motivation to keep their HP low.

If the developers want the endless debate to end, they should do something about it. A totally different group of people brought it up this time compared to the days of old, so obviously this has continued to be a point of contention that is worthy of consideration. I'm not out there trying to rally the masses against DF users. This thread happened unprompted and with zero rehearsal.
 
Well DMC isn't really in the same vein as this no resta discussion. DMC was just something Sega never really knew about, and literally nullifies damage.

I would prefer to have DMC back in the game rather than a "fix" to a community issue like party heals.
 
Marella said:
Since I start playing in 2000 I never heard someone want this~XD
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Well, it shows how half-baked the idea was. Because it's only available to 1/3 of players (Hunters) and it's highly disruptive. So obviously Sega didn't do a lot of balance considerations with DF. Maybe that's why it was not legitimately obtainable until the very end of official PSOBB. (And never in the USA version.)

Probably not, though. I don't see Sega having the foresight to predict that. It probably just goes back to Sega = lazy / bad.
 
At the end of the day this "problem" just comes down to communication between players in a group. There will be plenty of people that don't mesh well and expect/prefer to do different things. The best thing you can do is simply be flexible and willing to adjust your play dependent on the party's skill level and preferences. Not every game is a TA game but, not everyone wants to take a brisk walk around a quest chatting for half a hour.

We can all take a side on this hill to die on... without staff wanting/caring to address it, this is just the most common argument the community will have. IF the staff does address it, the community will just come up with a new equally as bad argument as that is just how people are. Sorry for the cynical take but, divisions in game communities are normal for a variety of reasons. If you dislike the DF meta then you can play with them less/avoid them. If you dislike being resta'd in a group you can play with those players less/avoid them. If one of sides suddenly finds there aren't that many people to play with then maybe they should reconsider their stance... You dont HAVE to DF and you dont HAVE to resta. It would be great if both sides could be understanding but, the friction happens when one side refuses to make an attempt.

I'll be in my corner hating slicers now for their awkward dancing attack animation.
 
Also Im just gonna state what I think everybody else already knows about this topic which is that its a purely one-sided issue. There's only one side that ever brings up this topic and its the anti-DF side. You almost never hear DF enthusiasts going out of their way to start this kind of debate back up, most of them either blacklist and move on or just straight ignore you and leave and find a new party.

I've only ever seen one person in my life wig out over this issue and it was a force being asked not to resta, where all they did was spam it endlessly every room and do nothing else after the fact. I've NEVER seen a DF user start getting toxic outright over not being able to use their DF effectively due to resta.

Gonna have to start demanding receipts when people bring this topic up because I don't think this is even a debate anymore. Anti DF people are the aggressors in the debate here, not the other way around.
 
Ive always wondered if there is a way to make it so that when you equip DF, it disables all forms of incoming healing (not just resta, but also via mates, idk if/how the game code differentiates between the two, what would be easier to implement is what im getting at), again since when someone is wielding it they want this to not be the case, all they have to do switch to another weapon when they want/need the resta/mates (ei. they are doing a run in ruins and they reached the room where there is a poison and cant use DF anymore or w/e, for example).

The ppl in charge have already done things ingame which have fundamentally changed the way some weapons work (e.i Galatine working the entire time, DP also working the entire time, allowing Clio to be used by HUnewearls , off the top of my head)...if its possible, again if its possible i dont see any reason why such a QoL fix wouldnt be implemented.

I understand no one full times a DF and every skilled DFer has a wide arrange of weapons for w/e quest/situation they are doing, but i think this could somewhat alleviate the problem, not remove/solve it altogether, for better or worse.
 
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It is definitely still a debate. And new perspectives are always being added to the fray. This is the first time I ever saw a compelling, "It is the FO's decision" argument, for example, in nine years of debating this.

Stop with the manufactured fatigue. We're all here discussing this because we like the game.
 
I think the reason it comes primarily from the anti-DF crowd is they feel "stepped on" in game, so the first offense has already occurred, in their eyes.

Intentional or not, perception motivates action.

Edit: Or maybe there's just way more of them.
 
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