EXP Curve Adjustment

[Ryan]

(Preface: Regardless of the results of this poll, the milestone reward system will be receiving a massive overhaul, since it promotes people to not play the game when certain rewards aren't active. Most notably, there won't be any strong EXP boosts outside of events - this means 2x EXP will no longer be an available weekly occurrence.)

Something the staff team has been internally discussing for a while is changing the EXP curve to make the slog through Very Hard a bit less of a chore. We've noticed lower-level characters signing on to "grind through" TTF repeatedly and reach Ultimate only when the 2x EXP reward is active, with some flat-out voicing their discontent at how unnecessarily tedious VH in particular. The proposed new EXP table focuses on shifting a significant amount of EXP from levels 60-80 up to levels 170+, where it makes much less of a difference. The total amount of EXP to reach level 200 is not affected, and neither are Challenge or Battle Modes.

Since this is a drastic change and not what you'd call "vanilla", we're polling the community to see what you guys think of it. If you're curious about the exact numbers and want to make suggestions about them, you can view the proposed table here. If you don't feel like looking at a table and want a pretty picture of the new chart instead, here you go!

Spoiler

This graph shows the EXP to next level, not total EXP.

We're looking forward to hearing from you guys!

 

[misfitchris]

I'd say keep things the way they are personally. Getting to ultimate is an achievement in itself. Catering to convenience excessively will really take away from what the server was originally meant to be... a vanilla server.

 

[Ade]

For those who love vanilla and may have a quick reaction to this as negative, it would be wise to consider that the total EXP from Lv. 1 to 80, as it stands right now, is less than 5% of the total journey to Lv. 200. Allowing players to more quickly "catch up" to the endgame is a normal part of every MMO. World of Warcraft did this every time they released a new expansion, as does Sega with PSO2 now. Therefore, it would not be a stretch to assume that, had PSOBB continued under Sega's direction, they would have eventually implemented something like this. If the proposed change is there to combat players from getting discouraged and allows them to enjoy the "meat and potatoes" of the game more quickly, then it's a good thing. Over 90% of players on this server have already completed the original Lv. 1 to 80 grind many times over. This is a good change.

Nice work, guys. Your ideas to improve the community and increase interest in the game continue to amaze me.

Edit: I can't open the table. Whatever program it requires I don't have. Can you post it in an actual post? Or is that the same thing that's in the spoiler already?

 

[Vmufan]

I say go for it!
How about adding a killgate to the weekly bonus? So that only those that contribute will get the bonus rewards?

 

[Matt]

Edit: I can't open the table. Whatever program it requires I don't have. Can you post it in an actual post? Or is that the same thing that's in the spoiler already?

Table is an Excel spreadsheet, surprised you can't open it. You might want to try getting Open Office or Libre Office if you don't have an office suite on your system, both of them are free.

I've uploaded it as a .pdf here though.

How about adding a killgate to the weekly bonus? So that only those that contribute will get the bonus rewards?

We already have some changes in mind which we're not going to talk about here since this is about the EXP Curve and I don't want to derail this thread. I will say I'm not a fan of this idea as it basically forces you to play which is not really the goal either.

 

[Rune]

Yes, **** vh the less time I have to spend in that hell hole of a mode the better.

 

[Ade]

Table is an Excel spreadsheet, surprised you can't open it. You might want to try getting Open Office or Libre Office if you don't have an office suite on your system, both of them are free.

I've uploaded it as a .pdf here though.

We already have some changes in mind which we're not going to talk about here since this is about the EXP Curve and I don't want to derail this thread. I will say I'm not a fan of this idea as it basically forces you to play which is not really the goal either.

I have Excel 2003 on my Home PC because I'm a cheapass xD

I use the newest version at work, so I'll open it next time I'm there.

Edit: Oops, you loaded a PDF too, so I can look right now. Thanks! :3

Edit 2: Looks great! The impact in late-game would be almost unnoticeable unless you had the amounts memorized. Nice work!

 

[Snow Hawk]

I basically have all characters in ult already but I approve of this because that grind was terrible

 

[DiZzy]

I voted yes. Being an older player on this server when I start a new char it really only takes about 5-6 hours(maybe less) with proper gear to reach ULT again but for a new player I can see it taking much longer(can't even remember how long it took me to get to ULT the first time around but I know I did it without x2 which is just torture). Game doesn't start until ULT anyways so go for it. Plus this shortens my alts leveling time even more

 

[honeydrew]

i genuinely dont understand any of the discontent with the vh grind. it never gave me any trouble whatsoever what with ttf making everything take null time anyhow. a brand new account character with no outside help whatsoever can go from 0 to ult in half a week no problem. with additional help such as ttf help games or mags/weps/mats from other characters, you can easily get to ult in a day. half a day even.

the vh grind is good because you can blaze through it in ttf/mas or actually hunt things like god/units to get yourself some decent gear, either route is fine.

maybe we need to just slow down, smell the roses, and appreciate the game in its entirety. if you dont like the vh grind it doesnt matter because it only takes a few hours with some help.

 

[trix]

I'm a fan of this idea! I have a lot of characters and this will make leveling them so much less of a chore. And that's the primary reason why I feel this is a good idea, because playing a video game feels like work to get to a reasonable level.

 

[Lileya]

I voted no, because this seems to be aimed mostly at newer players. This will have very little impact on players with uber gear trying to get new alts in ultimate as pointed out by others. So basically, we're just gonna help those newer players reach ultimate even quicker so that they had even less time to properly learn how to play this game... The learning curve is there for a good reason, it helps newer players acclimate to the game or players who haven't touched the game in years relearn how to play it. I'd rather not have to go through more Tower/Seabed with a lvl100 Humar/Hucast using his Dragon Slayer on Every. Single. Enemy. I'd even vote to remove TTF outside of Ultimate quite frankly... But that's another debate.

Yes, I'm aware that you're not going to learn how to properly play this game before reaching Ultimate, but there are some fundamental pieces of knowledge you need to learn outside of Ultimate like not attacking a single enemy with a multi-hit weapon or using Shifta and Deband when you're the only force on the team.

For those ready to dog pile on me, I'm not pretending I know how to properly play this game nor am I stating I'm some awesome player (lol), I'm just voicing my opinion based on my observations.

 

[Ade]

I voted no, because this seems to be aimed mostly at newer players. This will have very little impact on players with uber gear trying to get new alts in ultimate as pointed out by others. So basically, we're just gonna help those newer players reach ultimate even quicker so that they had even less time to properly learn how to play this game... The learning curve is there for a good reason, it helps newer players acclimate to the game or players who haven't touched the game in years relearn how to play it. I'd rather not have to go through more Tower/Seabed with a lvl100 Humar/Hucast using his Dragon Slayer on Every. Single. Enemy. I'd even vote to remove TTF outside of Ultimate quite frankly... But that's another debate.

Yes, I'm aware that you're not going to learn how to properly play this game before reaching Ultimate, but there are some fundamental pieces of knowledge you need to learn outside of Ultimate like not attacking a single enemy with a multi-hit weapon or using Shifta and Deband when you're the only force on the team.

For those ready to dog pile on me, I'm not pretending I know how to properly play this game nor am I stating I'm some awesome player (lol), I'm just voicing my opinion based on my observations.

If someone isn't ready for Ultimate, they can stay in VH to work on technique before moving on to Ult. I don't see the harm. There's also an abundance of guides for best practices, so a new player today will learn much faster than a new player back in the day.

 

[TaoChaos]

I think it makes sense. I don't know what @DiZzy is doing to go 0-80 in 5-6 hours, because it sure as f$%& took me longer than that, even with max mag and good gear. And if it's 5-6 hours of TTF, then the whole objective of the game is lost. Remember playing solo when you had to beat each difficulty before you could move on? That was a sense of accomplishment, when you finally punched Dark Falz out, moved to the next difficulty and got the stuffing knocked out of you again. And there was that awkward phase after you go to ult where you couldn't harvest exp fast enough in vhard, and you couldn't kill anything fast enough in ult. Ugh, I used to pipe back and forth on gc killing monats in ult because it had the best return on investment.
Also, I like that the exp reduction continues until lvl 128, because you still need a piggy back ride once you hit ult anyways. And getting help from someone twice your level is detrimental, because if you are missing or doing 0 damage then you can't even get exp before they wipe the room, and is the game really that fun if you have to leech off others until you are lvl 100+?
I'm totally one of those people who pretty much only play a lower char during double exp, since I don't have the amount of time to invest in playing a game as others, and I just want to run around in ult with everyone else man!

 

[GuardianGirth]

Only change hard mode and VH mode exp values. Nothing else is necessary.

 

[Matt]

If you tried reading the charts, you'd find out that they've been changed from 40+ (we can't change hard, it would affect Challenge) only.

 

[GuardianGirth]

Don't have anything that can read the charts. Either way, I agree VH forest should start grunt exp around 115 instead of 90 and probably end with grunt exp ending in VH desert around 250 for pyro gorans. Heavy enemies can follow suit with their 30% ish higher exp per area.

 

[Miku]

I agree with the proposed changes. I think it's dumb that I only start new characters when we have 2x exp, and then grind on mas or ttf almost the entire time until I get to level 80. Especially tedious on VH obviously as it takes a lot longer to get from 40 to 80 (duh).

And so what if it's only less than 5% of the total exp needed? Once you're really high level you get exp so fast, that that first 5% can take like 30% of the time or something.

 

[Ladybug]

I'll preface this by saying I'm lazy and hate grind (though I'll still play PSO ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)), so I naturally think this is a good idea. I think the flow for new/returning players goes like this:

Normal: 20 levels of learning/relearning the game mechanics and having difficulty spikes gently thrown at you (maybe taking on Dragon/Ruins at level 1 is a bad idea). Time flies by because you're discovering/remembering everything the game has to offer.

Hard: 20 levels of the same thing but shiny low-quality rares are introduced to keep things interesting.

VHard: 40 levels of more low-quality rares??? By this point you've probably realized that all the cool kids are playing Ultimate and walking around with flashy gear so you're anxious to get there.

Ultimate: Unlocks the other 50% of the game's content and lets you play with the established playerbase.

For smurf characters it's essentially the same except equipment cheese starts to lose effectiveness in VH.

The proposed changes would cut the exp. required from 40-80 by almost 50%, which would approximately bring VH's 40 levels of grinding to the 20 levels of Normal and Hard. The additional exp. reduction between 80 and 128 cuts it by 20%. (128 is a good level to do just about anything in Ult.)

@Lileya I'm not sure if those learning issues would really be affected by shortening the duration between VHard and Ult. There are a lot of things in PSO that veterans take for granted but the game doesn't teach players. Newer players might not understand the game's math that makes SDJZ so useful, or understand why hit % weapons are so valuable. Newer players might think swapping from their Dragon Slayer isn't worth it because they don't know about the quickswap menu. That's not even to mention niche game knowledge like DMC (useless now), SNS combos (or combo math in general), trap shooting, and how Smartlink works. In all of these cases, a player has to essentially consult a FAQ to realize they're playing suboptimally.

The largest argument against this is that it does further remove Ephinea from being a "vanilla" server but maybe players could be given the option to opt out of the new exp system?

 

[Alakaboom]

No. I like my slog long and hardddddd