Character Tier List?

It’s impossible to make just one tier list because there are too many variables solo vs party, and even then party make up matters, and budget vs unlimited budget. How easy or hard it is to get the items that would level the playing field, and also how you want to play the character. I made 3 lists based on solo, party and support, and I separated forces into melee and techs since parties don’t benefit their damage.

Solo
Hunters
1. Hunewearl
2. Hucast
3. Hucaseal
4. Humar

Rangers
1. Ramarl
2. Ramar
3. Racast
4. Racaseal

Party
Hunters
1. Hucast
2. Humar
3. Hucaseal
4. Hunewearl

Rangers
1. Racast
2. Ramar
3. Ramarl
4. Racaseal

Forces
Pure casters
1. Fonewearl
2. Fonewm
3. Fomar
4. Fomarl

Melee
1 Fomar
2. Fomarl
3. Fonewm
4. Fonewearl

Support
Hunters
1. Hunewearl
2. Hucast
2. Hucaseal
4. Humar

Rangers
1. Ramarl
2. Ramar
3. Racast
4. Racaseal

Forces
1. Fomarl
2. Fonewearl
3. Fomar
4. Fonewm
 
WandererFromYs said:
It’s impossible to make just one tier list because there are too many variables solo vs party, and even then party make up matters, and budget vs unlimited budget. How easy or hard it is to get the items that would level the playing field, and also how you want to play the character. I made 3 lists based on solo, party and support, and I separated forces into melee and techs since parties don’t benefit their damage.

Solo
Hunters
1. Hunewearl
2. Hucast
3. Hucaseal
4. Humar

Rangers
1. Ramarl
2. Ramar
3. Racast
4. Racaseal
Click to expand...

Dude, why's everyone blaming us humars on solo, we got Jellen/Zalure, we got Hell ES Sword/D.Sabers, we got DoB (i'm joking, I recognize the benefits of having constant access to shifta/deband or traps, for a more serene and faster hunt).
Anyway, you forgot to mention soloable forces (Fomar/Fomarl imo are the best ones if well built, with High hp and v502/Demonic Fork).
 
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DarkFlow88 said:
Dude, why's everyone blaming us humars on solo, we got Jellen/Zalure, we got Hell ES Sword/D.Sabers, we got DoB (i'm joking, I recognize the benefits of having constant access to shifta/deband or traps, for a more serene and faster hunt).
Anyway, you forgot to mention soloable forces (Fomar/Fomarl imo are the best ones if well built, with High hp and v502/Demonic Fork).
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Humars are perfectly fine characters. Every class is viable honestly. But for the sake of comparison they just aren’t the best at anything. Now if this was a Dreamcast tier list they would be number 1 overall.

I didn’t do a solo vs party for tier list for forces because they enhance themselves, so they don’t benefit from party play the way hunters and Rangers do. Instead I broke them down to Melee, Tech casting and support.
 
In what world is a pure caster fonewearl better than a pure caster fonewm explain that to me
 
Fonewearl has the highest MST, and by wide margin, which means she is naturally the strongest unless there is a boost involved. It also means that She can make up the damage gap more than the other forces, but no one can come close to her boosts.

Fonewm
Gifoie
Gibarta
Gizonde,
Rafoie,
Rabarta
Razonde.

Fonewearl
Foie
Barta
Zonde
Grants
Megid

Now I do understand how people look at those lists and say the Fonewms techs are preferable, but again the Fonewearl is pretty close to him in those AOE techs and quite a bit better with the single target techs. I've see the argument that simple techs fall off later in the game, I don't think that's true, taking down a single enemy with higher damage never stops being useful. In particular Grants, and Barta, since Gibarta and Rabarta have terrible range. Simple techs are also more useful against most of the bosses. Sil Dragon, Vol Opt second form, all 4 dark falz forms, Gol Dragon, Gal Griffon, and Olga Flow phase 1. Penetrating Megid is useful in most of Episode two. A fonewm can also do this with equipment, but he has to give something up, while the Fonewearl doesn't

I also have to mention the fact that Fonewms have the faster barehanded casting animation. Which seems like it would be an advantage, however if you played barehanded, like of people tend to do a Fonewearl with a 20-30% weapon equipped now has the same boost plus higher MST, so she will be stronger at gi and ra techs as well.
 
WandererFromYs said:
Fonewearl has the highest MST, and by wide margin, which means she is naturally the strongest unless there is a boost involved. It also means that She can make up the damage gap more than the other forces, but no one can come close to her boosts.

Fonewm
Gifoie
Gibarta
Gizonde,
Rafoie,
Rabarta
Razonde.

Fonewearl
Foie
Barta
Zonde
Grants
Megid

Now I do understand how people look at those lists and say the Fonewms techs are preferable, but again the Fonewearl is pretty close to him in those AOE techs and quite a bit better with the single target techs. I've see the argument that simple techs fall off later in the game, I don't think that's true, taking down a single enemy with higher damage never stops being useful. In particular Grants, and Barta, since Gibarta and Rabarta have terrible range. Simple techs are also more useful against most of the bosses. Sil Dragon, Vol Opt second form, all 4 dark falz forms, Gol Dragon, Gal Griffon, and Olga Flow phase 1. Penetrating Megid is useful in most of Episode two. A fonewm can also do this with equipment, but he has to give something up, while the Fonewearl doesn't

I also have to mention the fact that Fonewms have the faster barehanded casting animation. Which seems like it would be an advantage, however if you played barehanded, like of people tend to do a Fonewearl with a 20-30% weapon equipped now has the same boost plus higher MST, so she will be stronger at gi and ra techs as well.
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As someone who got a Foney to lvl 200, this is insane cope my friend. Single Target techs may be useful and give her an edge on paper for fighting bosses specifically but no tech dmg in the world even compares to actually using a weapon. And in almost all scenarios the gi and ra techs are all there is to care about for party play.

Your argument about barehand casting has flawed logic as well. Comparing barehand fonewm against boosetd foney is warped since you dont really take the faster casting animation into account, which matters for all the relevent techs besides gifoie. And giving Fonewm a weapon to equalize that aspect makes him better immediately.

The real Edge over Fonewm for Foney is something most players will mostly agree on. Fonewm is ugly, Foney is cute.
 
Thanatossa said:
As someone who got a Foney to lvl 200, this is insane cope my friend. Single Target techs may be useful and give her an edge on paper for fighting bosses specifically but no tech dmg in the world even compares to actually using a weapon. And in almost all scenarios the gi and ra techs are all there is to care about for party play.
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Tech only is the context, if you check my first post I made a different tier list for melee forces.

I disagree that gi and ra tech are all there is to care about in party play. You still use single techs to take down the more tanky enemies, or cover distance, you still have help take down bosses. gi and ra techs are used more yes, I don't disagree, my point is mostly that Fonewearl does Gi and Ra techs much better than Fonewm can do simple techs. Fonewearl as a nuker feels about the same to me. The fonewm feels like he is missing that piece of his arsenal, which why I consider fonewearl the better tech user.
Thanatossa said:
Your argument about barehand casting has flawed logic as well. Comparing barehand fonewm against boosetd foney is warped since you dont really take the faster casting animation into account, which matters for all the relevent techs besides gifoie. And giving Fonewm a weapon to equalize that aspect makes him better immediately.

The real Edge over Fonewm for Foney is something most players will mostly agree on. Fonewm is ugly, Foney is cute.
Click to expand...

I'm making that argument because I see a lot of barehanded fonewms online. You pick a character because they have an inherent advantage, than you negate that advantage by not equipping a weapon. Fonewearl doesn't have this so there is really no scenario where she will be without one. They faster animation doesn't help dps if you are casting faster, but it takes more casts to kill something. It has its uses in certain scenarios, but I think it's overrated by general gameplay.
 
WandererFromYs said:
Tech only is the context, if you check my first post I made a different tier list for melee forces.

I disagree that gi and ra tech are all there is to care about in party play. You still use single techs to take down the more tanky enemies, or cover distance, you still have help take down bosses. gi and ra techs are used more yes, I don't disagree, my point is mostly that Fonewearl does Gi and Ra techs much better than Fonewm can do simple techs. Fonewearl as a nuker feels about the same to me. The fonewm feels like he is missing that piece of his arsenal, which why I consider fonewearl the better tech user.


I'm making that argument because I see a lot of barehanded fonewms online. You pick a character because they have an inherent advantage, than you negate that advantage by not equipping a weapon. Fonewearl doesn't have this so there is really no scenario where she will be without one. They faster animation doesn't help dps if you are casting faster, but it takes more casts to kill something. It has its uses in certain scenarios, but I think it's overrated by general gameplay.
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I can promise you that nobody uses simple techniques to kill tankier enemies, not even on foney. That rarely happens.

The advantage isn't negated at all, because the boost is intrinsic, you always have the 30% Ra and Gi tech boost, so even with a Pwand or Magical Piece in hand, FOnewearl just barely edges out in damage and its not by much, the extra 200ish MST doesn't account for much. The benefit for FOnewm is you cast faster, which ends up being higher DPS total. There is zero disadvantage.

At best with a tech boosting weapon FOnewearl evens out in DPS to FOnewm, until the FOnewm slaps on the same weapons and then its not even close.
 
Varista said:
Fonewm is better and it isn't even close. Any veteran player will tell you this.
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This is an appeal to authority argument, and it doesn't work, because I am also a veteran player, and therefore part of that authority and I don't agree. So maybe we can just have a fun little discussion, with trying to pull rank and flex on someone because you think they are new?

Varista said:
I can promise you that nobody uses simple techniques to kill tankier enemies, not even on foney. That rarely happens.

The advantage isn't negated at all, because the boost is intrinsic, you always have the 30% Ra and Gi tech boost, so even with a Pwand or Magical Piece in hand, FOnewearl just barely edges out in damage and its not by much, the extra 200ish MST doesn't account for much. The benefit for FOnewm is you cast faster, which ends up being higher DPS total. There is zero disadvantage.

At best with a tech boosting weapon FOnewearl evens out in DPS to FOnewm, until the FOnewm slaps on the same weapons and then its not even close.
Click to expand...

Simple techs are the fonewearls strongest damage option, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be using them in a tech casting scenario. They also have the utility of giving range. There are lots of scenarios with it's beneficial to use a simple tech even for non fonewearsl.s

The advantage is negated because the Fonewearl can get that boost through a weapon while you are choosing not to use one. In this scenario they would both have the 30% increase, and the fonewearl would have higher mst, so she would edge him out. You started this discussion by saying things "In what world is a pure caster fonewearl better than a pure caster fonewm" Well there it is in your own words.

No it is close. It's always close which is my point. It's not close with simple techs, but at best Fonewm kills enemies 1 cast quicker maybe?
 
The only time you'd use si techs is in a situation where enemies have been damaged unevenly and you have to finish off the last mob, or its a single creature spawn. In which case in the case of something like Delbiter or Dorphon you're better off using demons which is impractical since you'd need to switch mags because lolnewmanwackysegadesign . For any other mobs hitting them all at the same time with RA or GI techs is faster because they'll all be getting damaged at the same time rather than changing targets. Especially it's something like groups of babootas, which will foie pelt you before si techs even become a useable option. It doesn't help that lots of mobs where Si techs SHOULD BE useful have high resists or damage caps on them or w/e the situation was, i forget. PSO is really badly designed in lots of cases in regards to use cases lol. PSU handles them so much better.
 
I dont think I've ever felt the need to use a simple tech over just gizonde, razonde, rafoie, or rabarta. They're just as fast, if not faster, and do aoe in the event that multiple enemies are around including the one you would be trying to down with simple techs.

Only time I recall using a simple tech intentionally is foie on falz p3 while he's invincible
 
WandererFromYs said:
This is an appeal to authority argument, and it doesn't work, because I am also a veteran player, and therefore part of that authority and I don't agree. So maybe we can just have a fun little discussion, with trying to pull rank and flex on someone because you think they are new?



Simple techs are the fonewearls strongest damage option, I don't know why anyone wouldn't be using them in a tech casting scenario. They also have the utility of giving range. There are lots of scenarios with it's beneficial to use a simple tech even for non fonewearsl.s

The advantage is negated because the Fonewearl can get that boost through a weapon while you are choosing not to use one. In this scenario they would both have the 30% increase, and the fonewearl would have higher mst, so she would edge him out. You started this discussion by saying things "In what world is a pure caster fonewearl better than a pure caster fonewm" Well there it is in your own words.

No it is close. It's always close which is my point. It's not close with simple techs, but at best Fonewm kills enemies 1 cast quicker maybe?
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I really dont know how else to say this, but if the "advantage" is only given in the form of an uber and a 50 PD investment item that you have to hope the fonewm doesn't have in order for your damage to be as good, then I wouldn't really call that an advantage.
You need either an uber or a 50 PD investment item to barely go above breaking even with FOnewm in regards to damage even with 250 MST more. I'm sorry, but that is not an advantage that you're going to convince anybody to overlook when choosing either FOnewm or FOnewearl for nuking purposes.

Which sounds better to you: Making a character that at the very least needs a 300 PD equipment investment to barely break above even with FOnewm
OR
Making a character that right out the gate has a 300 PD item investment built INTO the character intrinsically and can go even further beyond that by investing that same 300 PD that FOnewearl is required to have to even compete into the same items, both of which are staples anyways.

I don't think I need to tell you which thing people are going to pick.

Simple techs are not meta in this game, I know you seem to like Simple techs and there's nothing wrong with that but in a lobby if you want to be efficient as a nuking force you will have to be using Ra and Gi techs. That's just the way of the game.
 
(Solo)
Racast
Ramarl
Ramar
Racaseal
Hucast
Hucaseal
Hunewearl
Fomar
Fonewm
Fomarl
Fonewearl

I think I might be forgetting someone, oh well...

Anyway, rangers are just absolutely broken, hucast is great but he isnt a ranger.
 
Varista said:
I really dont know how else to say this, but if the "advantage" is only given in the form of an uber and a 50 PD investment item that you have to hope the fonewm doesn't have in order for your damage to be as good, then I wouldn't really call that an advantage.
You need either an uber or a 50 PD investment item to barely go above breaking even with FOnewm in regards to damage even with 250 MST more. I'm sorry, but that is not an advantage that you're going to convince anybody to overlook when choosing either FOnewm or FOnewearl for nuking purposes.
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I agree with that first part, and it's one of the problems (rich vs budget) that I mentioned in my first post about making a single tier list. So is the discussion about the top end potential for each character? Or the person choosing their first character?However this isn't even what I was thinking about... Out damaging a fonewm with a fonewearl is high end yes, but closing the gap and doing similar damage, while also having single target damage is achievable for anyone. Anyone can have a collection of Fire Staff Agni, Storm Wand Indra, Ice Staff Dagon for 20% boosts. They are 0.5-1 pd each, if they aren't already clogging up your bank on some ids. You won't outdamage the fonewm with gi ra tech, but you can do comparable damage. Your argument has been that Fonewearl isn't close to fonewm, which just isn't true.

However the reverse isn't true. There is no scenario, no uber equip to make the fonewm come close to the fonewearls simple techs. He can use gear to get Piercing Megid, he has access to Mothers Garb to boosts grants that she doesn't, but it's still inconsistent. But Simple techs? he does like half damage. This is where the two are not even close.
Varista said:
Which sounds better to you: Making a character that at the very least needs a 300 PD equipment investment to barely break above even with FOnewm
OR
Making a character that right out the gate has a 300 PD item investment built INTO the character intrinsically and can go even further beyond that by investing that same 300 PD that FOnewearl is required to have to even compete into the same items, both of which are staples anyways.

I don't think I need to tell you which thing people are going to pick.
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This is a false dilemma. The question is do you want to create a character That has strong AOE, and weak single target, or a characters that has slightly weaker AOE, but much stronger single target. I'm also saying how much weaker is it really?
Varista said:
Simple techs are not meta in this game, I know you seem to like Simple techs and there's nothing wrong with that but in a lobby if you want to be efficient as a nuking force you will have to be using Ra and Gi techs. That's just the way of the game.
Click to expand...

My point is that they are both important, and they both have their uses. If someone just want to pick the appropriate Ra tech and spam it I get it. Especially on console where buttons are limited. But there are alot of times where it makes sense to use single target tech, and fonewearl combines the skills better. Shes' better at his skills that he is at hers.

Also I saw this topic, and while it's not specifically about the 2 forces, it does seem to show that there isn't much of a difference between their killing speed.

R

Thread 'FAUXnewearl'

Introduction
HUnewearl, the… faux-foney? Last time NMU3 WOL3 was on the RBR, I was surprised by a HUnewearl in a FO+DP party. I mused at their quirky choice of Totoro Leaf Plantain Leaf and Rafoie Merge, eschewing the use of melee attacks. This planted a seed in my head to try it sometime.

Tl;dr: HUnewearl invested in spamming techniques can do damage comparable to androids spamming Divine Punishment.

…and while that won't win any awards, I found it interesting.


Potential Use
If you're already...
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Fonewm got Excalibur and 800 atp, Foney only 580. This Is the true gap between them. He can switch between pure casting and melee damage quite easily, wich makes him extremely versatile at higher levels. And with a decent skin he isn't ugly at all.
She instead is recommended for support roles, rather than a pure battle mage. Piercing Megid gives her a little advantage, but in prolonged and enemy filled quests, i'd opt for a Fonewm.
 
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