The "Cannon Rouge Question" (cr threak)

cameron-

camcam
Event Team
Hello Ephinea PSOBB Server:




It has long perplexed and confounded me that the question of hit on CR has not yet been solved. In fact, in my perception the community remains divided as ever on this issue. Do you need hit on CR? Do you not? Is a CR with high areas% better than it's hit% alternative? This posts represents a starting point for this inquiry, and an invitation from the author to the community at large to join in the discourse.


The "Cannon Rouge Question"

Introduction

The aims of this article are to illustrate the various uses of the Cannon Rouge: where it excels, or in some cases competes with various other weapons, and to explore whether hit% benefits it or is required in these scenarios.

Considerations

We thank various authors for their contributions to this relatively young field of literature, with strong nods to "Hit is swag but noot needed," (Nyby, 2017), and "I'm making a full NAB/MD hit set llol," (Ender, 2018).

The Goods

All calculations performed using max ATA, as well as +20ATA from shields.

RAcast achieves 124% H1 with a 0h CR on Sil Dragon. EZPZ. This number spikes to 178% on Gol Dragon, who apparently has.. 120EVP? In ultimate multi-mode.
It is beyond the scope of this article to determine when Dark Meteor outperforms CR at dropping the dragon.

Conclusion: no hit needed.

DRL is one of the most evasive multi-targeted bosses in BB: he is a wriggly fellow clocking in at 680EVP. With a 0h CR, RAcast operates at 66% and RAmar 84% with H1. Hit, then, is decisively necessary here.

Barba Ray comes in at a distant 356EVP because his large skull plate slows him down. We can get away without it here.

Berserk-specced ES Launchers are frequently used on worm bosses to good effect, particularly as levels of Shifta and Zalure increase. More data is needed to understand how CR and a sacrificial Launcher compete in DPS across variable contexts of base ATP, shifta, zalure, and multi- vs one player mode. Moreover, CR effortlessly targets all of the worms' sections with most strikes where launchers tend to find less hitboxes, particularly in the significant opening salvo of the boss fight; depending on how your party chooses to engage the worms (since damage done to shells does not deplete the boss's HP), this is also of critical importance.

Conclusion: More research needed.

You don't need hit.

Conclusion: No hit needed.

Most have likely witnessed the weapon's destructive capabilities in this encounter; it is potentially the weapon's most effective use. RAcast needs exactly 5h to achieve 100% H1 on this target; everyone else gets away with 0h.

Conclusion: "Probably okay," but Big Boy Androids might find they "want hit" in order to "go fast" in this "elegant, moonlit arena."

CR can be quite effective at triggering suicide in Ob Lily if not outright killing them due to their multiple hitboxes, making it an effective way to sort groups of lilies (assuming you reach a threshold of ATP & zalure). At 680 EVP in multimode, RAcast needs a whopping 50h(!!) to achieve 100% H1 in Caves. All rangers will achieve 100% in solo mode regardless of hit. Mil Lilies share the same EVP as their less colorful and more common counterpart, but will likely escape death by virtue of their HP.

Ob Lilies in E2's Temple area are a little less nimble, but will still require a RAcast to use a 20h CR to achieve consistent success. (Unlike E1's lilies, Temple Mil's are only barely sturdier in terms of HP, but significantly more evasive. If you have a 60h CR, you can confidently blast your rouge all over these guys).

Conclusion: Needs hit.

This category is concerned with groups of enemies that: 1) spawn in close physical proximity, 2) contain more enemies than traditional sacrificial weaponry (shots, needles) can target, but 3) cannot be appropriately targeted with other multi-hit weaponry like partisans. The Temple section of MSB springs to mind. The Arlan family of enemies in Temple operate within 594-656EVP; RAmar can make this work with a 0h, but no one else can. Lilies EVP is as reviewed above. Note- all rangers happily strike these enemies with precision when they are frozen regardless of hit.

Canune rings, too, come to mind. A CR could be a potentially destructive instrument for approaching Canune rings in concert with stacked Gifoie, TJS special or both. RAmar needs 30h to be happy here, so one can only imagine what it might look like for his less adroit counterparts. In this case again, hit becomes irrelevant in the case of frozen targets-- which they may well be in this well-coordinated hypothetical.

It is also unclear if and when this is the most effective strategy and how and where it might work in other areas and quests.

Conclusion: ???????????????????

Conclusion

The article has thus made a case for the virtue of all area%'s for the Cannon Rouge, as well as a variety of reasons one might seek to obtain one with hit%. It has explored the weapon's uses--the niche as well as the rote--and the author believes optimistically that more applications of this item will unveil themselves as the game's meta evolves. Further areas of research could include the aforementioned applications, as well as exploring what exactly is meant about its confusing, bright and red blade.


If I have made any errors please let me know; if I have missed any effective uses of the weapon, please also let me know.

thank you,
cam
 
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cameron-

camcam
Event Team
What the hell are you smoking?
Show me a raml not getting any misses at gal (Or ANY boss) with 0-hit CR using just 'H'... LOL

Sure, she won't get a single miss with 'N', but 'H' is a totally different story. I have tested this extesively, so I know for a fact you are totally talking BS on this one.
I still get misses with my current 30h CR... Not many, sure. But it happens.

No misses with 0-hit CR... hahaha :D
Ramarl has 306 ata with 0h cr and rr/ra wall
Ult multi gryphon has 530 EVP

H1 has a 108% chance of hitting so ramarl will never fail this ata check.

sorry for being petty.

original thread is pretty out of date
 

Wilson

Time Attack
Ramarl has 306 ata with 0h cr and rr/ra wall
Ult multi gryphon has 530 EVP

H1 has a 108% chance of hitting so ramarl will never fail this ata check.

sorry for being petty.

original thread is pretty out of date

This is without movement and stuff right? If you’re using the Purei calculator it’s wrong anyway. There’s no proper calculator for factoring in movement of enemies either so it’s really hard to say. Perhaps figure4 was talking about the fly over?
 

cameron-

camcam
Event Team
cr hit box does not work like that, is not affected by movement and never misses on ramarl on the initial swoop or at any other part of the encounter. can’t believe i have to explain any of this to a TA god
 

Wilson

Time Attack
cr hit box does not work like that, is not affected by movement and never misses on ramarl on the initial swoop or at any other part of the encounter. can’t believe i have to explain any of this to a TA god

So the other guy is just talking out of his ass?

I’ve never actually used CR on Gal so I’m not aware of it’s particular mannerisms. Why would the accuracy of its attacks not be affected by movement like every other attack in the game?
 

Ender

of fun
Staff member
So the other guy is just talking out of his ass?

I’ve never actually used CR on Gal so I’m not aware of it’s particular mannerisms. Why would the accuracy of its attacks not be affected by movement like every other attack in the game?
Not every attack is affected by movement. FS special, SQ all attacks, Rambling May in particular. It's pretty clear on an enemy like a Zu where even high hit rayguns/lasers/HS will miss them but those weapons have no problem hitting them.
 

Wilson

Time Attack
Not every attack is affected by movement. FS special, SQ all attacks, Rambling May in particular. It's pretty clear on an enemy like a Zu where even high hit rayguns/lasers/HS will miss them but those weapons have no problem hitting them.

That’s pretty interesting, I’ve never had a chance to witness this directly I guess.
 
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