Hot take: FOnewearl should get bonuses to Ra- techs, too

jcorb

jcorb

Member
It seems like a bait-and-switch for the game itself to advertise the FOnewearl as having the highest MST in the game, only for her to be overshadowed by the FOnewm by invisible bonuses that you would never know exist without datamining.

Making her the absolute king of all techs might seem a bit overboard, but I feel like giving her a boost to Ra- techs would even the playing field, still giving FOnewm a comfortable niche by also possessing the Gi- bonus.

But either way, it just seems like the game goes out of its way to sell her as THE full-blown “mage” character, only to undermine that by arbitrary boosts. In my opinion, I think the innate boosts should be removed entirely, but that’s probably a more substantial change that the ephinea devs would want to make to the game (I also feel like HUmar should get Shifta/Deband, while the Rangers get Jellen/Zalure, as they better fit their “roles” in groups, I think; doesn’t make sense melee characters should have to stop to debuff every new enemy they fight).

Just my hot take.
 
Well the game is vanilla (with sprinkles) so we can say forsure it will never happen buuuut….

So FOney with her insane MST is only 9% weaker using Ra/Gi techs than Newm… less than the difference of using an elemental cloak. Here’s the kicker though… her simple techniques are 40% stronger than Newms. And also she gets pierce megid natively.

Now most people might think Simple techs are trash but they actually as much stronger too so for the case of single target… they are better but don’t forget that Barta can pierce, making it multi target. So for FOney a well placed Barta (using mace of adaman too) is actually a better Ice attack than Newm can even dream of AND it actually can hit from super far away too.

Remember too that a lot of people opt to not run pwand on newm cause he casts faster without it (also because they might not have one) So most likely in a party using a FOney if you use a merge, pwand, and elemental cloak you will probably be hitting for a bigger number. Swap to that mace of adaman for certain spawns and if they line up nicely you will actually be hitting for more DPS overall.

Also she has the most ATA for FO so she can equip Hell/Demons mechs which are some of the best items in the entire game, and although newm can too you cannot scoff at those extra ATA points with how little ATA forces have overall.

Overall in my heavily biased opinion, FOney is the best force.
 
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jcorb said:
It seems like a bait-and-switch for the game itself to advertise the FOnewearl as having the highest MST in the game, only for her to be overshadowed by the FOnewm by invisible bonuses that you would never know exist without datamining.

Making her the absolute king of all techs might seem a bit overboard, but I feel like giving her a boost to Ra- techs would even the playing field, still giving FOnewm a comfortable niche by also possessing the Gi- bonus.

But either way, it just seems like the game goes out of its way to sell her as THE full-blown “mage” character, only to undermine that by arbitrary boosts. In my opinion, I think the innate boosts should be removed entirely, but that’s probably a more substantial change that the ephinea devs would want to make to the game (I also feel like HUmar should get Shifta/Deband, while the Rangers get Jellen/Zalure, as they better fit their “roles” in groups, I think; doesn’t make sense melee characters should have to stop to debuff every new enemy they fight).

Just my hot take.
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Even without RA techs being tweaked in our favor as an offensive damage dealer....Mercy as a FOney does VERY well making OTHERS shine~! Mew is gonna have to side wiff Lags-kun on this one...Will things be 'changed'?....No! And it prolly shouldn't be! Sure, we're a little gimped...but with all the different toys out there, it makes us Drive to obtain them and improve ourselves~! Besides, there's prolly SOME kinda Phantasy Star lore that ties our Myau bloodline with our abilities or lack thereof...nya?
 

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Single target is better taken care with Bringers Rifle and most of the times enemies won't line up to get Barta'd. The best case for her is still second strongest nuker, ATA, and heal range if it's desirable in party. Also Foie shining in Faltz.

But overall is just that PSO balance is a big mess and feels all over the place and quite arbitrary, remember that FOs originally had lev 15 Techs and Humar could Grants.
 
Maybe the descriptions of the characters on the character select screen should be changed so they are accurate, along with a Solo, Multi, Pub, and TA Tier list.

A lot of people choose HUmar because his description on the character select screen is flat out wrong and deceptive, only to find out later he is one of the worst classes in the game, for example.

Edit: In short, I don't think any rebalancing should be done, but people should know what they're getting themselves into without having to do hours of research. Picking something that "bait and switches" with hidden mechanics later made me feel stupid and regretful in the past.
 
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Man, the HUmar thing again?

EVERY class in this game is great. There is NO WRONG CLASS to play. Why? Because PSO is NOT A DIFFICULT GAME. You will overpower all foes way before you ever hit level 200, no matter the class.

IMHO, it's doing too much to change descriptions of characters in the game to include tier lists because that shit is only for tryhards, sorry not sorry, who care that in a party, their character MAY have to swing one more time or MAY have to cast one more time to kill an enemy vs. another class that doesn't.

I can assure you that THE MAJORITY OF THE PLAYERS WHO PLAY PSO DON'T GIVE A DAMN about that.

They log in, socialize in the lobby, jump in a game from time to time to kill things, maybe find a rare item, and log off or go back to the lobby and see who else is there.

They're not crunching numbers for hours trying to figure out what's the best way to CK a Dorphon.

They're not sitting there calculating how many runs with what class is the most efficient and what section ID to find a rare item. They're probably just looking to see where something drops with who and then playing until they get it.

Crunching IS an end game activity, but most people don't have time to do that and, even if they did calculate those things, they're not going to slit their wrists when they find out that, well shucks, my class is going to take an extra 2 minutes or 2 hours to find that item, maybe, under whatever conditions they have.

THEY'RE JUST PLAYING THE GAME TO HAVE FUN.

Now, for the min/maxers, tryhards, etc. there is a wiki and other pages online for that. PSO is mostly figured out by now.

Anyone who has the time to sit around and cry about why their character does 100 less damage than another character and then crunch the numbers for it, is probably going to go to ye olde internet and find out why and how they can be better.

Like, I'm sorry you may have made a HUmar in the past and then possibly had a mental breakdown when he was high level and you figured out that, in your head, him not being able to cast S/D or him not being able to lay down traps, was a huge dealbreaker, but it is what it is.

Yes, other classes can shine above other classes, but it doesn't make anyone's choice of class wrong. They're ALL VIABLE.

Most people play what class looks good to them, aesthetically, and that fits their play style, and there's nothing wrong with that. Let people have fun without trying to shit on their enjoyment of the game.
 
I think people ought to play the class they like playing, and would love for someone to get out of the woodworks and touch upon the HUmar strategy guide.
If anything I should just plaster some of my findings on HUcaseal on there too, instead of it being discord-only (or me-only).

Anyway, its just how the cookie crumbles. I think conceptually-wise that the difference in tech-tiers was a good idea on the devs, but it probably turned out a little differently balance-wise than they think it would. Wouldn't know, wasn't there, but hey, that goes for most games in the neighbourhood anyway so, eh.
Besides that, FOnewearl is legit still a really good class anyway.
 
Also consider what balance was originally designed around. Free roam and offline quests most likely. How often do you see more than like 5 enemies at once in free roam and offline quests? RA-techs are way less useful if there are less enemies.

My main weapon was always twin swords on GameCube because you could get away with single target melee in free roam. Free roam is generally just a much different game than what quests have become since original release.
 
I-frames said:
Single target is better taken care with Bringers Rifle and most of the times enemies won't line up to get Barta'd. The best case for her is still second strongest nuker, ATA, and heal range if it's desirable in party. Also Foie shining in Faltz.

But overall is just that PSO balance is a big mess and feels all over the place and quite arbitrary, remember that FOs originally had lev 15 Techs and Humar could Grants.
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Yeah even then with the Barta thing we’re talking about Episode 4 4x FO runs anyway, a somewhat niche activity being only 1/3 of the game and is only truly going to be ran a lot like that if Desert is in the RBR that week (making it like…1/16 of the game)…

In pretty much every single area except that then the FO is just gonna SDZ and spam SoF IF they even have time to use an attack before the overpowered party just annihilates everything lol
 
I wouldn’t call it a mental breakdown, but it does sting when you find out that a choice you made 100+ hours earlier is now penalizing you. It doesn’t feel good when a game makes you feel stupid even though you didn’t do anything wrong. But this is on Sega for not play-testing class balance enough. Not Ephinea. Anyway, I’m sorry and I didn’t mean to upset anyone. I only decided to give my opinion because someone else made this topic. And my heart does go out to them because I know how they feel.
 
Ade said:
I wouldn’t call it a mental breakdown, but it does sting when you find out that a choice you made 100+ hours earlier is now penalizing you. It doesn’t feel good when a game makes you feel stupid even though you didn’t do anything wrong. But this is on Sega for not play-testing class balance enough. Not Ephinea. Anyway, I’m sorry and I didn’t mean to upset anyone. I only decided to give my opinion because someone else made this topic. And my heart does go out to them because I know how they feel.
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Don’t succumb to the bullying bro. You are entitled to your opinions and suggesting that some strings of text be changed isn’t necessarily a huge request. Of course the answer is almost always going to be no though lol but just saying to change some text to be a better description does not warrant such an overreaction. You are allowed to share your opinion and threads like this are fun and break up the monotony of the slower years of the forums such as now. Also what we write here is somewhat permanent and can be read for years to come or even commented on in years if someone else would like to share something. And it does not require you to be terminally online like the nature of discord, or quickly turn into a massive circlejerk when you go against the hive mind of those trying to just fit in and agree and not ruffle any feathers.

Such is the nature of a forums vs a chatroom where no real discussion can ever healthily take place without being buried with spam and memeing, we can actually discuss things here.

I for one greatly appreciate this thread and I appreciate OP for making it because it’s fun to talk and theorize about these kinds of things. I hope more people make threads and more discussions can take place. As for your point I think pretty much every n00b would appreciate actually knowing who is the best. I think I picked RAmarl cause she looked cool when I first joined and I guess I got lucky because she has some redeeming features but I think I’d be pretty pissed if I picked HUney or something when I hit 180 and realized she was objectively trash, lol.
 
Also consider what balance was originally designed around. Free roam and offline quests most likely. How often do you see more than like 5 enemies at once in free roam and offline quests? RA-techs are way less useful if there are less enemies.

My main weapon was always twin swords on GameCube because you could get away with single target melee in free roam. Free roam is generally just a much different game than what quests have become since original release.
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I don't want to be an "actually" guy but can't contain myself reading this, spawns in Mines and Ruins are the same in solo and multimode, and pretty sure the whole Ep2 but don't quote me on that. How someone leveled relatively fast without online quests? Ruins. Most spawns are like 6 Arlan, 8 Claw, 4 Arlan and a Del Saber, 4 Arlan and a Sorc, 4 Arlan and 4 Gunners...I don't know how a full run with spawns like that would look with just a Double Saber type weapon, but probably really, really painful -specially considering that you mostly level on Ruins so the idea of being overpowered is out- you'd get hit A LOT and get floored every single time you do, unless we are considering traps, but we have yet to specify class and that would be using an area attack.

Partisans/Shots have been main solo weapons since ever.
 
I-frames said:
I don't want to be an "actually" guy but can't contain myself reading this, spawns in Mines and Ruins are the same in solo and multimode, and pretty sure the whole Ep2 but don't quote me on that. How someone leveled relatively fast without online quests? Ruins. Most spawns are like 6 Arlan, 8 Claw, 4 Arlan and a Del Saber, 4 Arlan and a Sorc, 4 Arlan and 4 Gunners...I don't know how a full run with spawns like that would look with just a Double Saber type weapon, but probably really, really painful -specially considering that you mostly level on Ruins so the idea of being overpowered is out- you'd get hit A LOT and get floored every single time you do, unless we are considering traps, but we have yet to specify class and that would be using an area attack.

Partisans/Shots have been main solo weapons since ever.
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Humar offline. I mostly played in forest and I did get floored a lot. I never said I was any good (or am now).

But you also can’t compare free roam to the online quests we have now.

I would bust out a brionac in mines because gilchics don’t stagger the same way other monsters do, but mostly I just rocked my Yamato, and used resta a lot.
 
Humar offline. I mostly played in forest and I did get floored a lot. I never said I was any good (or am now).

But you also can’t compare free roam to the online quests we have now.

I would bust out a brionac in mines because gilchics don’t stagger the same way other monsters do, but mostly I just rocked my Yamato, and used resta a lot.
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I mean yeah, solo mode Caves and Forest are lonely places in where waves politely come at you in groups of 2-3 enemies, more on the late game where exp/hunts are done multitarget is basic though, even basic free roam solo Ruins/Temple is not THAT far from some of the bussy quests.
 
The problem isn't that fonl doesn't have access to tech boosts of other tech trees, its that sega was short sighted and possibly lazy with how Si techs would work. A problem that was handily fixed in PSU. Functionally barta is the only one that "works" in a way that gives FOnl a use for her si techs, in that it pierces multiple enemies. Even then bartas actual area of effect is so small you might as well not bother. As it is now thats just the way it is.

edit:Oh also fix newman growth god fucking dammit.
 
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The problem isn't the distance, its not having width or any lasting hitboxes to deal with target misdirection due to target/aim assistance from mobs walking in funny directions, no freezing effect either. Si techs are genuinely trash.
 
Nikki said:
The problem isn't the distance, its not having width or any lasting hitboxes to deal with target misdirection due to target/aim assistance from mobs walking in funny directions, no freezing effect either. Si techs are genuinely trash.
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You are disregarding the fact that I can hit something before someone else possibly can because of the distance. This is why ranged weapons > all else. If you use adaman, merge, cloak etc you can literally hit a pyro for like 1k per. Try it sometime, it’s fun. Far from “trash”. And if you are using a FOney to begin with you may as well. Otherwise if you care about min maxing that much then I guess play a different class lol (although you will only be gaining 9% that will probably be forgone to just use techs barehanded… LOL)

But of course pyro is just one example. Sorry I’m hyped up about the 4x FO desert runs post-DMC update lol. Another example is using Foei on falzy during his invuln. stage. In this niche instant it’s far from trash and becomes the best way to perform damage to him in the game via FOney or any other char.

Another example would be anytime you are targeting a single monster, since it deals much more damage in general. Although there’s not that many quests that are ran with such spread out spawns but they do exist from time to time.

Let’s also not discount the insane range that zonde carries. I can deal tons of damage before even a rifle can lol. Not something to scoff at and definitely worth mentioning.

Overall you will indeed deal lots of damage and have FUN using simple techs.
 
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