Sekiro and the industry's [fairly] recent obsession with extremely hard games.

Ade

;3
A few years ago I set out to beat the entire From Software Soulslike catalog without summons or cheese. It took awhile, and sometimes I would have to over-level to make up for my own personal deficiencies, but eventually I beat them and all of their DLCs (even the goddam Frozen Outskirts of Dark Souls 2).

I then went back and beat them again at reasonable levels if I felt that over-grinding was needed on the first attempt. I improved a lot, and on my most recent run of Bloodborne, for example, I didn't have to level grind anywhere and finished with six deaths for the entire run. Not bad, in my opinion. But one thorn in my side continued to bother me...

I was always too afraid to try Sekiro because I knew stat upgrades were limited and that over-leveling was not possible. But against my better judgment, about a month ago I finally got it, and suffered through and beat the game. I beat most of the bosses by following their mechanics, with only the occasional sprinkle of cheese as needed. This took a tremendous amount of trial and error, and I had to consult guides for bosses that I couldn't figure out. But even with a guide, an optional boss like Owl Father still took me 50+ tries to beat because of how punishing the reaction times were.

Contrary to the popular claim, I don't get an overwhelming sense of satisfaction from any of these games when I get stuck on something and then finally win. Rather, I get a sense of relief and I say to myself, "Thank goodness I never have to do that again." If it takes me 100 tries to beat a boss, I don't consider that a win. I just look at it objectively: If I win on the 100th attempt, then in reality the game beat me 99 to 1. I actually feel worse about myself than when I started. This means that difficulty alone doesn't do it for me. I know myself better than this; I prefer exploration and observation of interesting environments.

Seven years ago, my brother got me Spiderman 2018 for PS4 as a Christmas gift. He called me a month later to ask what I thought of it, since he had recently played it himself. We shared our experiences and talked about the wonderful exploration, traversal, and combat. But I noticed one thing: Not once did he ask me what difficulty I played it on. Because, like most people, he didn't think it mattered. (I honestly don't remember; probably Normal.)

For gamers like me, who only feel a sense of defeat after finally winning after X attempts, high difficulty is not something to be happy about. It's just a time-consuming obstacle to experiencing the game's content. In the case of a game like Sekiro, there's a chance that I wouldn't have seen all of the various environments if I lacked the skill to get through the earlier areas. There's no option to go somewhere else and level up. You either beat the boss, or you get stuck. Well, I am stubborn, so I'm going to see the entire damn game. I paid for it, after all.

In the end, it would seem I suffered through the entire game just so I could earn the right to say, "I hate this game," without people saying, "Oh, it's just because you suck." No... I really don't. I forced myself to beat this game and "got good." But I didn't get any enjoyment out of it. I hated every second of it.

I think developers like FromSoft make hard games for the purpose of generating controversy, which leads to curiosity, which leads to increased sales. I think the argument that they are visionaries in the gaming industry are over-exaggerated. They're just doing the same thing NES developers did back in the 1980's and 90's: Vastly increasing the playtime needed to beat a game by adding near-unavoidable repeat attempts due to pitting the player against impossible odds. (Edit: The exception to this is Elden Ring; which is huge and takes a long time to 100% clear regardless of its difficulty.)

There is a reason this mindset was left back in the previous century, and it's because a lot of the games sucked. Decades later, games became much easier to the point where there was no challenge at all, which was also bad. But now, with the industry's recent obsession with "hard for the sake of being hard" games, I feel the pendulum has swung too far back in the other direction once again.

Keep in mind, this argument applies to single-player, offline games (and maybe some element of co-op). Competitive multiplayer games will always be sweaty by virtue of human competition. But this notion that a single player game should only be beatable if you treat it as a near-full-time job is silly and over the top.

So yeah, I got good, but I didn't get any satisfaction from it. Where is this satisfaction I was supposed to get?
 
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The Simples solution would be that Souls Games arent youre Cup of Tea you probably wont get any satisfication with upcoming Titles either then. Which i think is total ok. There are a TONS of Games Nowdays.

I felt that relief on some Bosses too. Elden Ring Dlc Final Boss, would be my to go Boss. It was not a good feeling just a relief which was sad because i loved the Game.

Funny enough i got the most satisfication from Sekiro Bosses, it just tickled something within the feel to Beat those Bosses, Owl Father was especiall, great for me funny that you picked him as your option. Buuuuut i HATED Demon of Hatred still do to this day.

To sum it all up, if you dont get the Dopamine from those games avoid them for youre own sake. No need to force yourself through something you dont enjoy.

Have a nice day :)
 
It just makes me mad because if I say “This game isn’t for me,” I picture the nameless FromSoft fanboy saying it’s because I’m not good enough to beat the game. Well, I guess they’re wrong. But that isn’t a super great reward, either.
 
They are wrong, you never should listen to any Fanboys ever anyways. I am in love with those Games but i would never say Git Good thats just a stupid sentence.
As an example if you played Games like D4 or Path of Exile just look at those fanboys they make for such a Toxic community. The Souls Series sadly also has alot of Toxic fans.
 
Yeah. I actually love Elden Ring, Bloodborne, and DS3 because they give you the tools needed to overcome a boss, and it's about 50% skill, and the other 50% is finding useful gear or grinding. That is a good mix, IMO. That way the burden isn't 100% on my shoulders. But yeah, my desire was to prove to the toxic Souls community that it's okay to say, "That game isn't necessarily for me" without being bad at the game. It's okay to dislike something purely because you dislike it, and not because you're too unskilled to participate with it.

I'm REALLY GOOD at doing taxes, but I hate doing them, for example.

Anyway, I discovered a lot of things about the unreasonable lengths I'm willing to go to prove a point, even if it's against a vague or non-specific adversary. I guess I am a modern day Don Quixote =/

Off to my next windmill.
 
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IDK what that is, but presently I'm taking a long and well-deserved break from difficult games.
 
The popularity of the souls games in particular proves the opposite. If done right, hard games can be very good and sell really well. The soulsborne series is very popular because of the attention to detail AND the difficulty. People like a challenge, that much is obvious. If it's not for you then its not for you, but you do a disservice lying to yourself that the industry has this sudden obsession with difficult games because its just not true.

I still dont understand why you even played it. You knew it was hard, you knew you didn't like it, but you played it anyways and then are now announcing to the world that you hated it and shouldn't have played it. I don't get it.
 
I mean if difficult games are not your cup of tea you can always play hello kitty island adventure, animal crossing new horizons or math blaster. There are options out there.
 
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The popularity of the souls games in particular proves the opposite. If done right, hard games can be very good and sell really well. The soulsborne series is very popular because of the attention to detail AND the difficulty. People like a challenge, that much is obvious. If it's not for you then its not for you, but you do a disservice lying to yourself that the industry has this sudden obsession with difficult games because its just not true.

I still dont understand why you even played it. You knew it was hard, you knew you didn't like it, but you played it anyways and then are now announcing to the world that you hated it and shouldn't have played it. I don't get it.

See? Don't say "it's not for me." That statement makes me angry. It's a nice way of saying, "You can't handle it." THAT is why I finished all the games, so people can't say things like that to me.

I can authoritatively state I can handle these games. I beat the entire catalog while placing more restrictions on myself than was necessary.

I want to know why others get this sense of accomplishment after trying something 100 times and finally succeeding, whereas I get the opposite effect. I find myself angry that I wasn't naturally skilled enough to beat something in fewer tries, for example. I think that if takes you 100 attempts to beat something in a video game, you should be embarrassed, not proud.

Perhaps it is because perseverance has been a part of my character for such a long time that I simply assume it is a characteristic everyone possesses, when actually the opposite may be true. So, if I'm not taking any pride in that perseverance, then there's nothing to look at except for raw data. "I tried X activity 100 times and succeeded once. Mathematically, I am a failure."

Perhaps I need to be more thankful that I so naturally possess this perseverance that I don't even think of it as an actual attribute. For me, it's like breathing. I've lost sight that it's an actual thing that not everyone possesses. It would appear I need to adjust how I view this.
 
When people say a game isn't for you its not an automatic statement of your potential ineptitude to complete the game, Ade. You can stop thinking of everything as a personal attack on you. What people are saying when they say that is that the genre of game or the game itself doesn't seem to be your cup of tea.
When I tell you that the soulsborne game series is not for you, what I am saying is that the repetition of dying over and over and continually battling hard bosses over and over does not seem to be something you blend with as a gamer, thus you may want to avoid them. Im not disputing your ability to complete them, but why play something you hate?
 
It's ok to not have the capacity to enjoy games you find difficult. The "game beat me 99:1" mindset is why you and many other people don't have the capacity to enjoy "difficult" PVE games or PVP games/modes. Trying to pick games apart to explain why they're unfair doesn't really matter.

To lose is to improve. - Some French philosopher. :cool:

If it's not for you, that's ok.
 
It's ok to not have the capacity to enjoy games you find difficult. The "game beat me 99:1" mindset is why you and many other people don't have the capacity to enjoy "difficult" PVE games or PVP games/modes. Trying to pick games apart to explain why they're unfair doesn't really matter.

To lose is to improve. - Some French philosopher. :cool:

If it's not for you, that's ok.
I think picking it apart does matter because it signifies pushback from a paying customer that should be just as valuable as any other opinion. Way too many studios seem to think that everyone wants hard-as-balls games now because of how vocal the “git gud” community is. I set out to prove that you can dislike a game for a reason other than, “Oh you’re just not good enough to beat it.” So my hope is that this sort of pushback will change some minds.
 
I prefer to go the different route of thought process in these situations. And this usually pisses off souls defenders so be forewarned im not trolling I really think this.

I don't personally find dark souls games or any game with stamina limitations that hard in the traditional sense, I think they're just badly designed from the outset, and expect you to cope and work around that design to achieve victory. They're not meant to be fair and the game devs know it. On that same note though, Thats also why the series got easier as time went on, because like with most fromsoft games, they get better at making their own games as the series goes on (Armored core not included depending on which fan you ask). This is why you'll hear some souls fans say bloodborne's piss easy compared to the to the souls games, because of how mechanics like parry and sidestep work. They're allowing players more options.

I'll always hold that any game that puts artificial limitations like stamina on the player, gave up on actually giving thought into game design other than "big enemy swing weapon, little man dodgeroll for i-frames". It's boring, souls is boring so yeah its not for me personally.
 
To be honest, from the main known fromsoft games, Sekiro's the game I give the "it may not be for you" label to the quickest. Not even because of its difficulty. Just the sheer specificality.
 
From birth, games were generally and naturally challenging, and it appealed to those truly fascinated by games. And the industry grew, and everything today, comes from that. Then other kinds of people started coming into the "community". These people in truth dislike games. They're looking for something else, which doesn't exist. Instead of looking for it, or creating it like we did from scratch, they instead attach themselves to the gamer's community. They do not try to coexist with the community, they do not respect the preexisting and natural order. They do not even accept that some things can be made for them, and some things can be made for the community.

Whenever something is made for the community, in the spirit of natural tradition, they proceed to attack it until it has been changed, to their overbearing foreign ideals(PSO2 is an example). When the community pushes back and "says": "we accept and welcome you, but you have to accept that although you have used control freak tactics and taken over 90% of what WE created from scratch, we at least deserve to have 10% of it, made in honor of our "tradition" " , these actors scream that the community is toxic. And after filtering their bulshit arguments, you realize that what they're really saying is that 100% of everything must be made for them
 
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