NPC Helper Bots utilization?

Shenhua

Member
Hi, everyone. I'm curious, if it would be possible to implement a NPC helper bot function, to the next Teth release? These NPC's would be similar to the ones found in various solo quests. It would be much like the edenserv feature but no level limits and it would probably be command based for GM's only.

Also, I wonder if the npc helper bots could be utilized outside of solo mode? Maybe, in a party of three real people and one npc (or vice versa). Or is it strictly solo only?
 

Sodaboy

Administrator
Staff member
Haha, sounds like they ganked that packet of my proxy. I don't see a reason to add that to the source, though. If you want it, you're free to code it in yourself.
 

Shenhua

Member
That's understandable for a lot of reasons. Most players are probably not interested in this type of function. I figured I was going out on a limb. XD I would definitely like to have it coded for my personal server. But, I'm not sure if the NPC's are usable outside of solo mode.
 

Sodaboy

Administrator
Staff member
I wouldn't use them, they have the potential to freeze the client of other players in the same room. I remember spawning them in the GameCube lobbies back in SEGA days, though.
 

Shenhua

Member
Hah, in the lobby! Ah okay, I see. Yeah, I wouldn't want that to happen. Best to avoid crashes. lol! Thanks, for your input Sodaboy. Much appreciated. :)
 

Roaxes

Member
That's one of the reasons I almost loved phantasy star universes AI partners since i'm an online phobic *like to play offline* until I realized the PSUs bots tend to just run around in circles and say "Are you lost?" when they're the ones suppose to be following me. >:c Would be a nice feature though in my opinion for those who need a little extra hand but prefer being Offline. :p
 

Shenhua

Member
Roaxes said:
Would be a nice feature though in my opinion for those who need a little extra hand but prefer being Offline. :p

@ Roaxes - I totally agree! I personally feel, that this type of feature would be really handy on a personal LAN server with little to nearly no population. Where one would really need some extra help, from time to time.
 
I don't think it would matter all that much. As stated earlier, the NPCs AI is horrid, and they would not be doing all that much to help. Think about how little help you got from Kireek in battle Training. if I remember correctly the behavior is in the client, so it couldn't be improved.
 

Shenhua

Member
@ magevideogames - Yes, i'll agree, that the NPC AI's are limited in behavior. I find it rather unfortunate, that the AI behavior cannot be easily modified and improved. But, imho they function quite fine on Edenserv. Especially, if the NPC classes are diversified, surprisingly the NPC's can exhibit quite a aggressive nature in battle. Much like a real party in a regular game, the only thing i have to do really, is heal and support the NPC's, while i fight off enemies. Although, some of the NPC's actions may seem repetitive, from my perspective, it's a lot better than doing it solo and it's overall a more fun and enjoyable experience. The NPC's seem helpful to me, despite their hardcoded, AI flaws.

And BTW, I vividly remember Kireeks help in Battle training. I guess, it's a matter of how you play, because when I was low level, I often made Kireek do most of the work for me. I would actually repeat the quest, over and over on solo and have Kireek help me level up, especially in my DC gaming days. XD You may have not found Kireek very helpful, but on the other hand, I consider Kireeks helping me level up, extremely useful.

Personally, my favorite solo NPC involved quest is Episode IV's, Warriors Pride with Bernie and Ash. It's too bad, Sega didn't make more solo quests like this and evolve the AI/bot programming a bit more.
 

tofuman

Administrator
Staff member
Well technically it already has the functionality. Rika updated the "offline" pioneer script on Eden which placed NPC's next to the principals teleport. These NPC's would offer help if you talked to them.

So all you'll need is Qedit. Import into the quest data files the script and add code to place NPC's then export the file from the quest data files and place in the client's data folder. Place these on the patch also so that all clients are sync'd.
 

Aleron Ives

Member
Roaxes said:
PSUs bots tend to just run around in circles and say "Are you lost?" when they're the ones suppose to be following me. >:c
The sad thing is PSU bots are about 10x smarter than the ones in PSO. They actually heal when they get hurt and can perform combo attacks. Unlike the NPCs in PSO, they're a help, rather than a hinderance. The best thing about NPCs in BB is that they get five seconds of respite after every hit, which makes them useful as meat shields, if nothing else. You can even set NPCs to be invincible in quests, which makes them the ultimate meat shields.
 
That is actually why I used the NPCs in PSU. They weren't the best, but they would still PA quite often and heal. Plus you could command them.
 

Shenhua

Member
Yeah, I agree too. That is a really good point that they are pretty much meat shields. PSU and it's sucessors, NPCs are much more clever because they can heal at least. If you don't like doing at least, some support that much, PSOBB NPC's probably are not a good choice. Sadly, I bet Sega didn't change the AI programming archtecture much since it's debut on DC. lol! :p
 

Aleron Ives

Member
NPCs will heal on PSO, but their attack AI overrides their healing AI. They only heal when all of the enemies are dead. Their follow AI also overrides their attack AI; if you run really far away from the NPC, it will eventually stop attacking and follow you, instead (assuming it hasn't gotten stuck on the enemies, in which case it will twitch in place and just get hit over and over until it dies).
 

Roaxes

Member
I actually think PSO's AI were a tad better then PSUs. They will actually charge or shoot an enemy if they get close rather then waiting for an enemy to brush against them. And some even cast Anti on you *looking at you Maya shidow....* Though its a shame they can't combo like the PSU AI.* Of course I am kind of biased against PSU cause i'm still mad that Ep.3 was online only. I wanna know what happens with me playing not watching lets plays. qq
 

Shenhua

Member
Yeah, the PSOBB NPC's can surprisingly be pretty offensive. Especially, the NPC's equipped with guns, particularly mechs.
 

Roaxes

Member
If I knew anything about coding I definitely would get AI partners for my offline private server but atlas I know nothing. qq
 

Aleron Ives

Member
The only way to get smart NPCs in PSO is to write a bot that plays the game in the place of a real person, but that's a huge amount of work, and bots such as Veronique are about as far as anyone has gotten.
 

Mylandra

Member
The thing about creating a bot outside of the game scope is that every monsters AI is computed independently in each client whichever means you'd have to mimic every single enemy AI inside of the bot scope otherwise that same bot would not know where the enemy is located so that he can properly hit and be hit back.

Whichever means the bot would be invincible and kill enemies from the other end of the room all the time because the server does not handle enemies at all. Only useful for bot cheating otherwise not useful as a legit game AI. A bot like this would be too OP to be used at all.

The only area where you could make some sort of outside-the-game bot that works well in other players screen is battle mode, but the bot would know exactly where you are with perfect aim (As long as there isn't some stupid lag), so unless you'd have some crazy AI abuse, you would die everytime. Therefore, having bots would not be fun at all.

Edit: I have an incomplete bot that could technically work if I'd complete it, but the reason my own bot would work for this is because it is using the game client and controlling the character from an external AI script through the client. Right now it only feels like a cheat tool rather than something useable as an AI.
 
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